Online Giving - Pros & Cons

[wbcderek]

Afternoon,

Our Senior Pastor has interest in adding online giving for our website. The only way I have done this is for a business who did everything through paypal. I'm interested in hearing how you're doing it with your sites, and your positive and negative thoughts on this in general.

Thanks for your help,

Derek

[HansR]

I'm interested in...your positive and negative thoughts on this in general.

I'm a bit leery of on-line giving. I'm certain for some it would be a convenience, but it seems to appear so very money hungry. How difficult it is to remember to write a check on Sunday morning? (I?ll bet most churches would accept the gift even if it was mailed during the middle of the week.) It seems far too simplistic to create a PayPal account and then wait to see what God provides. Would we be so quick to consider installing credit card sliders in the sanctuary? I hope not.

All giving (time, talents, financial) is an act of worship. However, giving money gets confusing in ways that other worship does not. This is due in part to the physical needs of the church being directly linked to its supply. I suppose if one maintained a site which enabled visitors to somehow engage in an online worship experience the case could be made that giving should an element of it. However, I?ll admit if presented with that challenge, I?d have no idea where to begin.

Scripture again and again demonstrates that being in financial debt is akin to slavery. Churches need to ensure they are not facilitating this. If someone is writing a check or dropping cash into a plate, at the least, it is not borrowed money. Perhaps if churches were like Aldi food stores and accepted debit (but not credit) cards it would sit better with me?as long as the link was not from the homepage.

Looking forward to hearing other's opinions,

Hans

[David Gillaspey]

In my review of 1000s of church websites, I've noticed a definite trend toward churches adding online giving. I wish now, Derek, that I had paid a little more attention to these links, so that I could provide you with a range of options (that I had come across).

I happened to notice, however, that Chuck's (Camainc's) church, Westside Christian Church, has both a PayPal link and a link for "e-Giving." The latter allows one to sign up for electronic funds transfer (EFT) from a bank account on a regular, recurring basis. Perhaps Chuck can explain more about this.

As with Hans, I have been a little disturbed by this trend toward church websites having links for online giving. However, I'm a baby boomer. Doug Murren, in his classic book, Baby Boomerang: Catching the Boomer Generation As They Return to Church, identified one of the reasons baby boomers didn't go to church was they felt churches were always asking for money. So a lot of seeker-sensitive churches as a result went out of their way to avoid offending visitors during the offering part of the service.

By contrast, from what I've been reading in Dan Kimball's The Emerging Church, a primer on ministry to the postmodern generation, postmodern worship services (at least, in his church) tend to make a big deal out of the offering, because, as Hans points out, giving is an act of worship, and postmoderns like their worship to be experiential. Dan even cites examples (in his church services) of having people put their offerings in baskets alongside which is burning incense. The incense invokes Philippians 4:18, "...They [offerings Paul had received] are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God" (NIV). Of course, it would be hard to replicate that online, unless you're doing an internet church with avatars.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[zzyxxe]

Paypal doesn't have an option for donations or non-profit organziations yet. I was looking into setting up paypal donations for my church website because it doesn't cost anything to setup and maintain (it's real easy, in fact), but paypal does take a piece of everything that is donated -- For example, they take 2.9% + $.30 for every donation under $3000.

-Zzyxxe!

[David Gillaspey]

Paypal doesn't have an option for donations for non-profit organziations yet. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. PayPal handles donations for not-for-profits just as it would any other business account, as far as I know.

For example, Great Church Websites is a duly registered Oregon not-for-profit corporation. I set up a PayPal business account (rather than a personal account) for Great Church Websites. But Great Church Websites didn't get many donations during the first 10 months of operation. That is why I recently switched to paid memberships (to Great Church Websites, not the forum) in hope of at least recouping my costs to date. These are still handled on the backend via PayPal. I use aMember (http://www.amember.com) as my frontend membership program.

But perhaps you mean a special account where PayPal's cut is less because the business is "not-for-profit." Some not-for-profits are multimillion dollar organizations. I'm not sure that PayPal would be interested in reducing its cut for them. Although any such organization would already be able take advantage of PayPal's lower percentage rate cut for higher volumes of sales or donations.

paypal does take a piece of everything that is donated -- For example, they take 2.9% + $.30 for every donation under $3000.PayPal also has a monthly limit for how much money can be transferred from one's PayPal account to a local bank account. In my case (Great Church Websites), the limit is US$500. It occurred to me recently that would be real problem for a church wanting to use PayPal for online donations.

Sincerely

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[generalhavok]

Our pastor recently asked me to add online giving options to our site. As an older GenXer, I have no problem with that. Twice in the past two months, I'm told, strangers have called the church and wanted to give with their credit cards...but didn't give at all, as we didn't have that option.

I see how some would say that almost ANY mention of money could push some people away. While that's certainly the case in some situations, I can't agree with the idea that churches should avoid doing what they consider important simply because someone doesn't like it. Our church body seems to understand that decisions will be made that cause a few to be uncomfortable, and they appear ready to live with that.

So, I've begun the process of hooking up with PayPal. I have a page that works at the moment, but haven't yet linked it to the live site. I wanted to explore more options before settling on a simple button that takes you offsite. I'm looking into a few OS shopping carts to have more control over the process. Of course, that also means the potential of having an SSL certificate and making people less comfortable giving their credit cards. I haven't yet decided which way to go, so I'd appreciate the advice of anyone who's been using online payment systems for their own church.

Thanks!

General Havok
www.ColumbineHills.org

[David Gillaspey]

I'd appreciate the advice of anyone who's been using online payment systems for their own church.Check out the services of Sign Us Up (http://www.signusup.com/). I learned about this company from the website of a church in Texas.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[generalhavok]

Thanks, David. I am, of course, looking for services that I can implement myself, and that cost as little as possible. That's why PayPal is so attractive to so many. I see that they're related to Agora...that's one of the shopping carts I offer with my hosting service.

[John Tedeschi]

I'd like to address this reply to everyone asking about online giving for churches. First a little disclosure. I am the President of a company called Acceptiva, we develop, host and manage online payment processing for non-profits and service professionals. I am posting on this forum at the suggestion of David Gillaspey, the President of Great Church Websites, so please excuse the obvious 'commercial' overtones.

Many of the churches that we have spoken to, including our church clients, were concerned that having an online giving option would make them look like they were 'money hungry'. They all struggled with the desire to make giving easier and more convenient yet not to appear to be 'asking' for money. They have resolved this conflict by stating during services and in printed materials that they have instituted a new online giving option that is there for those that want a more convenient way to give. The option is addressed in the same way that all other giving option are addressed; voluntary and there for the benefit of members.

To date, client churches have received overwhelmingly positive feedback from members that use the service. The number of members using the online giving option at client churches is low compared to the number of all givers, but the average dollar amount given is significantly higher. It seems that the wealthier members prefer the online option as it allows them to set up a monthly, weekly or bi-weekly gift that they know will be received by the church even if they miss a service. It also means they do not have to write a paper check or carry cash.

Just a note on some giving statistics on the Acceptiva platform: Most online giving is via debit cards, most is for 'tithing' i.e., regular gift giving of the same amount each period and most is made by VISA card (this ties in with the debit card fact).

Churchs also like the Acceptiva online giving service as it simplifies their accounting and reduces their instance of lost monies.

As far as using PayPal as an online donations options here are my thoughts. PayPal is a very good payment platform, it is free to implement and their processing rates are good. I have had a PayPal account for many years and find it to be reliable and secure.

The interesting thing we found with clients that use both Acceptiva and PayPal is that after about 3 months their members stopped using PayPal.

As I have stated earlier PayPal is a good service, but it has a high abandonment rate among first time payers and 'new to the Internet' users. PayPal was never designed to be a customized solution and as such lacks the warmth and comfort that a customized solution conveys. This is an aspect that greatly affects a donors likelihood of giving online.

We started the Acceptiva service to cater to entities that wanted a more customized payment service, i.e., personalized payments page, thank you notes and receipts. We also wanted to help clients that did not have the technical skill to set up a Paypal account (I know that sounds like a sales pitch but many non profits have very unsophistated individuals running their websites). As such we enable clients to be accepting payments online in about 24 hours from a customized payments page that links from their own website, and handle all development and hosting as well as ongoing edits and updates.

If anyone would like to see what Acceptiva looks like vis-a-vis PayPal please visit our website at acceptiva dot com and view the demo. I can be reached by email or phone and would welcome any questions or debate. David, thank you for allowing me to post to your forum.

Sincerely,
John Tedeschi
President,
Acceptiva

[mickmel]

Check out the services of Sign Us Up (http://www.signusup.com/). I learned about this company from the website of a church in Texas.

I'll second that. We've been using them on our site for a few months now, for both event registrations and online giving, and it's been great! In fact, we just added their "online store" module and we're anxious to see how that goes over.

I agree with some of the comments about online giving taking away from the worship experience. Personally, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me. Most of the time we'd be scrambling to write a check before the basket got to us, or feeling bad that we simply forgot to bring the checkbook. Now we can sit back and enjoy the choir during that time, rather than stress out about our check.

With the online giving, I can just tithe while I'm paying other bills on my computer. It makes it much easier to give, and I can attest that our family has given more to the church online that we did with our checkbook, if for no other reason than that the site is always ready (and we often forgot our checkbook).

The other downside mentioned above is the fees, and SignUsUp/Agora is no different. They take their 3 or 4 percent from every transaction - it's a fact of life with credit cards. We think it's worth it, though.

Feel free to check out our site; notice the "Online Event Registration" and "Online Giving" in the menu on the left.

Mickey

[dframpton]

We just added an online giving feature to our church website which integrates with our CMS called fellowshipone . So someone can go online and make a contribution to a specific fund if its, tithes, missions, building fund etc. We are moving ina technological age where almost every financial transaction is done online. For me i can pay my tithe online securely without the hassle of going to the bank each week. www.clctoday.org (http://www.clctoday.org)

Dustin Frampton

[flutem3]

Dustin wrote:

We just added an online giving feature to our church website which integrates with our CMS called fellowshipone

Hi, Dustin,

Welcome to the forum. I am a bit slow in welcoming you. That isn't my job, but I try to welcome others "just because."

I have a question about online giving. How much do you have to pay whoever handles the money, i.e. PayPal? Do you have website giving set up to take all kinds of credit cards and how much money do you have to pay them.

Our church is very slow coming into the 21st century when it comes to handling money...very slow. We still use checks for everything and don't have any kind of credit card for the church except for Wal-Mart's. And the church treasure wasn't involved in getting that. :)

I pay all kinds of things on-line, but I know there is an expense somewhere. Nothing is free. Well, that isn't right. The love of God is priceless. Anyway, you know what I mean.

Carol

PS How do you know you are an "humble guy"? :D

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Dustin made a good point. Most of the good church oriented CMS's have integrated giving systems. For those of you with in house systems or hand coded sites a lot of the big hosting/ web dev companies have online payment systems. Another option would be to check with the financial arm of your denomination, they may have the ability in house or have discounted rates from a specific institution.

[RayAUMC]

For those of you who use online giving, how do your rectify the accounting between what your giver gives and what is received by the church? For example, if a giver makes a donation of $1000 online, the fees for PayPal or other financial package used will result in less than $1000 reaching the church. For the purpose of this discussion, I'll assume that the fee is 2%, or $20. The donor would consider that $1000 had been given, but the church statements, and subsequently, the donor's statement of giving, will show that $980 was given.

[Faithhb_lutheran]

depending on who you use this might not be so. If most financial institutions that work with corporations set up service fees to be paid at certain times. For example if you had 13,000 come in through electronic giving in the months of Jan-April, then at the end of the third quarter the services company would charge you $260 (assuming a 2% service fee). This is another reason I would shy away from the big personal money exchange services such as PayPal.

[bkluth]

Check out this article on the Top 7 Reasons Why to Offer Electronic Giving Options:

http://www.churchcentral.com/blog/-Top-7-Reasons-Your-Church-Must-Offer-More-Electronic-Giving-Options