New to all of this.. Help please

[reddcin]

Hi all. I was put in charge of our Church website so I made this..

http://www.princetonfreechurch.net/

But I am using a very old version of frontpage to do this. The pastor has asked me if I would like a upgraded version or a different program all together. Well it took months and months to build our website as it is. The thought of switching over scares me. However, I can see a need for a newer look. I have tried searching for templates but there isn't much for free for the 98 version. I'm very new to all of this so any program would need to be easy to use (as easy as frontpage). Thanks in advance for any help provided! :D

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Cindy,

Again, thanks for joining the forum and introducing yourself to us.

What I am going to do is ask you to read the following:

http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/top_tips.php
http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=646

then reply to this post with your thoughts about things you'd like to change in -- shall we call it? -- version 2 of your website. The above web pages will you give much to think about.

In educational circles, this is a form of "directed learning". The more time and effort you put into this exercise, the more valuable it will be to you. :)

[reddcin]

Ok thanks! :D I'll go look at those :)

[reddcin]

Wow, that was a good read, I guess we will need to do a complete rebuild of the site.

Which software should I recommend the church get to do this re-design? There are so many, Dreamweaver, MS Expression, Coffee Cup, etc...

The elders are meeting on 13th of Dec and I have to present a proposal detailing the cost of this re-design. I would like to keep it as low cost as possiable, but I also realize that we will have to pay for decent software.

What are your recommendations?

Thanks

[flutem3]

Which software should I recommend the church get to do this re-design? There are so many, Dreamweaver, MS Expression, Coffee Cup, etc...

Hi, Cindy,

Welcome! You have already discovered the value of this forum and David's website with tips, etc.

You said that you could use FrontPage, old version. I know that David and company and going to ask if you have any experience with coding...with HTML, CSS, and other such things which I don't use. Another question to be asked is how much time do you have to put into a website. They can be very time-consuming. Perhaps since you are going to approach a board, you might ask how you are to get the content for the website. That is one of the most difficult challenges many of us face. People want to have a website, but it is like pulling teeth to get it in a timely fashion. It is important to have your board with you if you can.

Most of the people in our church, including the board, could care less if we have a website. They think it is "nice" that I do it. Since I am home much of the time because of health, it "feels" as if they are saying, "the dear thing needs something to do." Maybe they aren't, but it feels that way. It is a wonder they don't pet me on the head! :)

If you don't have much money to use, you can make a fine website using WordPress which doesn't cost anything. I don't know how, but I know people have done so. Maybe they can speak up and let us know their experiences doing so. WordPress is considered as a blog, but it is much more dynamic than that...at least I have been told that and have read that too.

One of the things with is essential to consider before you begin is why you want to build a website? It is very important to know. It will help to determine direction. And the next question is who is to read the website...for whom are you making it? That will also determine direction. You have to remember that what is on the website is your church's "face" to the entire world. It is not something which is local...it is global. Potentially everyone who has access to a computer in the entire world could look at your website. Our church has a terrible time understanding that. Many churches see websites as a local entity, but they aren't.

One thing that I did when I began, and I just began. I had no idea what I was doing...and that is the absolute 100% truth! :D I put together a bunch of pages with titles...and then looked for content. Many people do that. First, we need content...and we build the website around it.

At any rate, there is great joy and some frustration in building a website. But patience, perseverance, and asking questions will win out every time.

Welcome to this wonderful ministry!

Carol

[JackWolfgang]

Hi all. I was put in charge of our Church website so I made this..

http://www.princetonfreechurch.net/

[QUOTE=reddcin;4678]But I am using a very old version of frontpage to do this.


You don't want Front Page at all, version 98 or newer.
You can't buy Front Page anymore (it's been replaced by Expression Web)


I don't know what your level of experience is, but if you are beginning computer user, I would suggest signing up for your church's name at WordPress.com and spending a few hours playing with what WordPress.com can do.

[JackWolfgang]

Wow, that was a good read, I guess we will need to do a complete rebuild of the site.

Not a bad idea at all. FrontPage did not support web standards at all, and the pages it generates are very accessibility unfriendly.

Which software should I recommend the church get to do this re-design? There are so many, Dreamweaver, MS Expression, Coffee Cup, etc...

As I recommended before, I would try WordPress.com (you can pay a fee and they will host your domain for you, but I would try it first without re-pointing the domain name).

The elders are meeting on 13th of Dec and I have to present a proposal detailing the cost of this re-design. I would like to keep it as low cost as possiable, but I also realize that we will have to pay for decent software.

It can be done for very cheap (I designed our new church web site and implemented a content management system for FREE!), but it depends on what you want to learn. Given that you have 7 days to prepare, you may want to see if you can delay to the January elder's meeting.

What are your recommendations?

Standards compliance!!! Valid (X)HTML and CSS are a good first step towards an accessible web site. What do I mean "accessible"? Web site accessibility means making the information on the page available to everyone, regardless of their ability. Older people have problems with smaller fonts, people who are blind will be using a screen reader, etc. A good resource for web site accessibility is Mark Pilgrim's Dive Into Accessibility (http://www.diveintoaccessibility.org/). It's focused on blogs, but there are lessons that can be used for the church web site as well.

Software such as Microsoft's new Expressions Web (yes, I did mention a Microsoft product first), Joomla!, Web Empowered Church/TYPO3 (Joomla and TYPO3 are content management systems), and WordPress all support web standards and can produce Valid (X)HTML and CSS.

Thanks

You're welcome.

[reddcin]

I found a post by David that pointed to a program by NAMO Inc call Webeditor. I have DL the demo and have been playing with it for some time. I am also DL a program call Coffee Cup.

As for the meeting the elders only are looking for costs, and nothing else at this time. They are not asking to see the updated website.

[JackWolfgang]

I found a post by David that pointed to a program by NAMO Inc call Webeditor. I have DL the demo and have been playing with it for some time. I am also DL a program call Coffee Cup.

As for the meeting the elders only are looking for costs, and nothing else at this time. They are not asking to see the updated website.

My point in seeking a delay is to give yourself time to give them better numbers.

[StubbyD]

You don't want Front Page at all, version 98 or newer.
You can't buy Front Page anymore (it's been replaced by Expression Web)I don't know what your level of experience is, but if you are beginning computer user, I would suggest signing up for your church's name at WordPress.com and spending a few hours playing with what WordPress.com can do.

I would concur with Jack's approach and if possible say to avoid FP and its newer variant altogether. Not because I hate MS products but because they lock you into a way of thinking that isn't the norm for web development.

Here's what I'd do - sign up for a free account at www.freehostia.com (http://www.freehostia.com) and install either WordPress of one of the various CMS's that they install for free via their one-click install process. Then use this as your playground to do and try whatever you want without harm to man nor beast.

WP has 1000's of templates and plugins to allow you to do most whatever you want.

You could even create the 'new' church site here and then when ready to swicth to it, start paying for hosting and get the DNS for the domain name pointed at the freehostia setup. For now, don't worry about the technicalities - we can talk you through these later.

If you want to stay with running a piece of software locally and then ftp your results to a web host, then I would recommend SiteSpinner - very cheap and it's WYSIWYG along with being standards based.

HTH?

[flutem3]

If you want to stay with running a piece of software locally and then ftp your results to a web host, then I would recommend SiteSpinner - very cheap and it's WYSIWYG along with being standards based.

Hi, Stu,

Do you know anyone who uses SiteSpinner? It is certainly reasonable, but not free, but with free hosting in the other place, it seems that this is about the least a church could pay for a website. The amount of space for hosting is 2 1/2 times the amount I have at Homestead. Do you know how long the trial period is? I couldn't find the answer? I really had been looking at Blue Voda. Of course, I would have to host with them, but the amount of space you get is fantastic. I could save everything on site and not have to use free storage space and embarrass myself as I recently did when some semi-pornographic ads were next to our archived sermons. DO NOT SAVE SERMONS AT ORBITFILES.COM. You may eventually be sorry that you did!! :mad:

And if it is even close to standards compliant, I would be ahead of the game by far. I don't know why, after all this time, I haven't heard of these. Of course, I know there is so much stuff out there I cannot begin to imagine.

I know that we are paying too much for what we get at Homestead, but it has served me very well. Now, I know there are ways to do the same thing better and less expensively.

Does anyone know whether Blue Voda is even close to standards compliant?

Thanks to one and all for your wonderful information. I love it!!

Carol

[reddcin]

We have a place that hosts our site on there server that is really cheap and very flexible. Our church website has been running now for over a year. But it didn't start out how it looks now. I guess what I'm looking for is a program that is as easy to use as front page but with a newer look with newer templates around 100-150$. I don't plan on learning html or any of that stuff. Right now we have had 3 families come to our church and they said it was because of the website. We live in a small town and as our website looks now it is the best out of all the churches in our town. Thanks again for your help. :D

[flutem3]

We have a place that hosts our site on there server that is really cheap and very flexible. Our church website has been running now for over a year. But it didn't start out how it looks now. I guess what I'm looking for is a program that is as easy to use as front page but with a newer look with newer templates around 100-150$. I don't plan on learning html or any of that stuff. Right now we have had 3 families come to our church and they said it was because of the website. We live in a small town and as our website looks now it is the best out of all the churches in our town. Thanks again for your help. :D

Hi, Cindy,

There is no need to spend that much money on software to build a website.
Check out the information which has already been given to you. Sitespinner looks good and is $49. It appears to do everything you want it to do.

Use the money for something else. And WordPress is an option which is free. There are many options for you to use which do not require knowledge of HTML or CSS. Another possibility is Blue Voda which you must host on their site, but they have a trial download which you can use to learn as long as you want to. You will find that it costs something like $180 for three years. I do not know how compliant the code is however.

Take a look at some of these things. That is why you came and asked the questions. I tend sometimes to ask a question when I have already made up my mind as to what the answer is. :D I don't know if anyone else on here has ever done that or not.

Carol

[JackWolfgang]

We have a place that hosts our site on there server that is really cheap and very flexible.

Five questions based on that statement:

1. Do they offer CPanel for your account?
2. Do they offer Fantasico?
3. Do they offer WordPress installed from Fantasico?
4. Do you know how to use FTP?
5. If not, are you willing to learn how to use FTP?

If the answer to the first three is yes, then I would definitely suggest trying an account at WordPress.com and see if you think the WordPress software will meet your needs.

If the answer to the final two is yes, then hosting WordPress (the free self-hosted version) on your site is an option with one of the any number of templates (many free) that are available.

[JackWolfgang]

Here's what I'd do - sign up for a free account at www.freehostia.com (http://www.freehostia.com) and install either WordPress of one of the various CMS's that they install for free via their one-click install process. Then use this as your playground to do and try whatever you want without harm to man nor beast.

WP has 1000's of templates and plugins to allow you to do most whatever you want.

Just an FYI that those templates and plugins require you to know how to FTP transfer them to your site. But there are free FTP programs out there, like FileZilla.

[StubbyD]

Do you know anyone who uses SiteSpinner? It is certainly reasonable, but not free, but with free hosting in the other place,

Opps! My bad - I was thinking of another bit of software I've used in the past.

You are right, SiteSpinner isn't free but it also isn't expensive and it gives you a 30 day trial IIRC. I've used it and found it easy to do basic but functional and pretty sites.

Unfortunately I can no longer point you at any of them as they are all by and by gone to that great bit bucket in the sky. Ohhh, one that still exists is http://www.redandthewolf.co.uk - but it is based on frames so not really a good example and in my very early days of web coding. The best bit it helped me organise was the sidebar menu and banner / logo.