Reaching the lost by increasing traffic

[HansR]

Hey All,

Who knows of effective strategies for church sites to reach out to folks who are not interested in a relationship with Christ? The church sites I've seen, (which is a lot thanks to David!) typically only target attendees and seekers. How can we generate content of interest to those who could give a rip about what we believe?

Some examples might be:

Members sharing their life stories (testimonies) being conscious to provide enough specific details they are likely to one day pop up in a Google search.
Blogging with a Christian's perspective on a particular "secular" topic of interest.
A "religious themes on a secular level" blog. i.e., Someone in the church begins to repair their home; they talk of the details peeling paint and hardwood floors but woven through the narrative is a Biblical view of restoration.
Tagging content appropriately with terms outside Christian jargon and then getting into the marketplace of ideas: i.e., sermon downloads are made into podcats and submitted to iTunes.
Every church has people who have a wealth of knowledge surrounding their hobbies or career. If we sent them out into the appropriate internet forums with the intent of helping others, how could this impact the kingdom? i.e., Can you appropriately transition form forum topic to Christ?
How could a church best use YouTube or MySpace?
Can anyone think how to logically integrate a RSS feed from a respected secular source into a church site?Reaching the lost by increasing traffic is nothing more than providing compelling content. (And that's no easy task!)

Any thoughts/examples?

Thanks!

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Hans,

Off the top of my head:

Have a MySpace page (as you suggested).
Put your church videos on YouTube (as you suggested).
Have a Wikipedia entry. There's a church in Florida with its own Wikipedia entry. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_Walls_Central_Church .
Launch a Google AdSense campaign, choosing to target users geographically. The AdSense ad for South Lake Church (http://www.southlakechurch.com), located in the Portland, Oregon, metro area (where I live), shows up frequently in my Google search results.
Tony Whittaker, who lives in England, is an expert on making church websites friendly to unchurched people. He has a webpage with 70+ tips, which he permits other sites to include. On my site, it's here:

http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/tw_tips.php

(I give him credit; most sites don't.)

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[HansR]

Hi David, thanks for your reply. The heart of my question is more along the lines of...once we've got a YouTube or a MySpace or a Blogger page, how best do we populate it? Does traditional advertising work in these settings? Do you take a stab at being funny? Offer information? Gather data? We all enjoy cranking out content, but what's its appeal for those who don't care to know Christ? I guess the best way is to visit those sites and see what's out there...

Also, what are inovative ways of using chruch bandwidth that go beyond what we typically see? What's so very exciting to me about the web is the interactive element. It is now very easy to set up a blog (or forum, podcast, photo gallery, etc., etc.), let people find you, post comments, and begin to build community. Then what? How do we structure this to introduce "friendship evangelism" without seeming (or actually being) deceptive when doing so? How can we present the truth of Christ to a world who thinks they (and quite possibly actually) have heard it all before? How can a church use web 2.0 technology to offer more than our 1.0 billboards sites did? Is pulling static content from a database any better than old fashioned markup?

Thanks!

PS: Thanks for the link to Tony Whittaker's ideas. I've seen that here before, but I know it would behoove me to give it another read.

[flutem3]

Hi, All,

What we are all wanting to do is attract people to an idea (Christianity) which they don't really want. We think they would benefit from being a Christian, but many, many people do not see it that way.

Anything we put up that even smells like church will send them the other way. Therefore, it seems to me that what we are really trying to do is:

1. Attract people who already believe in God...otherwise we know they won't come to our websites.

2. Provide content which will make them want to return to learn more...and that is difficult to do given the language we tend to use which chases a searcher away

3. Engage the person in some way which is meaningful but not threatening...something which does not make him/her feel vulnerable.

4. Create a "safe" environment for exploring Christian ideas...and this is difficult to do in something as open as the internet.

5. Teach people what Christianity is about...what they need to do, where they can go in their communities; how to find a church; etc.

6. Make certain that we are quickly responsive to anyone who sticks a toe in the water.

7. Engage in everything...and I am not certain how to do that. People in our church, for example, do not use blogs for discussions. You would never find them on a forum of this nature, with another topic, I mean.

8. The "lost" may prefer not to be found...and they will not be, in general, on a church website.

And we cannot be deceptive in what we are doing. There is no rationale that I can think of that would allow us to do so...even if it is for the best of reasons.

I think this is a difficult issue. However, I do believe that we can make much more progress toward reaching the population of people who are at least searching than we do now. I do not have the answers. I wish I did. :confused:

But I do like the suggestion that someone made about telling people where they can get free Bibles. That is a wonderful first step forward in my not so humble opinion.

Carol

[HansR]

This is great, thanks Carol!

[Guitar Praise]

Forum administrator's note: Please see this post by me about Mr. Williams, which explains why I have banned him: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5268&postcount=15

Hi, you need targeted Internet traffic, a solid built website , with great content, it must be packed with about 80% of the wording as top keywords through out the first 4 paragraphs and get rid of the ( If's and's and the's if you can) work it into the ground if you have too. Also look for keywords no one else can see...example such as the top 100 people in a business or church or names of people or names of churches ,these are keywords most people never think of, seek them out the top names of people,preachers,singers and write a little history about them on your website..... you'll rank faster....and I mean much faster.

example....if I was talking about gas stations for sale online, top companies would be, Shell,Texaco,Arco,Valero,BP,Chevron and the list goes on....learn to discus history or make a list about the top 10 to top 100 people or businesses, or churches....they are keywords no one ever thinks about, this is a trick that works great.

Next you do need some backlinks, it's good to have 35 strong backlinks before you submit to Google your site. Here's a point to remember solid content ranks websites on Google, not backlinks, I can beat any site with 10,000 bank links and myself have only 35 to start off, as long as I have better packed Keywords and solid content on my website....then over time add Backlinks, and link press release to you site also.

Next search the Internet for codes from computer geeks or gurus, or if you're cunning enough secretly watch what they are doing and try it yourself, also the codes I am talking about are called cron codes, also altered Flashplayer codes, that can be used to draw 1000's of people a day to your website. I first used cron codes on ebay, my auctions years ago averaged 8000 hits per auction, some auctions over 30,000 hits, I have had over 3800 watchers and was on Ebay Pulse many many times, if you know what that was. So learn codes.

I also have develpoed a system that's more advanced than what I am telling you, and it ranks websites at 98% of the time in Googles top 3 spots on the main front search page, this system I am not revealing to anyone, it can be a gold mine for me, it took years to develop, but I believe there are 2 other people on the Internet who know what I know, in a couple years, I feel ranking on Google and Googles adsense will be useless as we know it today. There's also a new company coming out that's 300% more powerful than Google and 300% faster, If Google doesn't buy them out Google will be history in the future. Remember ebay was once great and look at it now, only God remains the same. Everything else will change in time.

If you go on Digital Point you can find out more info on this. All I can say is If you know how to react ahead of time before the future becomes the now....of today, you can do anything and that's the secret, in online business of an IM or Internet Marketer or ranking churches. Try and stay ahead of everyone else if you can.And it takes a lot of research to do that right.

Thanks GW Williams

[David Gillaspey]

Hi GW,

Again, thanks for posting.

First, please hit the Return or Enter key twice between paragraphs when writing posts. The resulting double-spacing makes posts much easier to read. I've edited your post (the one to which I am responding) to add the double spacing.

So, it sounds to me that you advocating that a church should include on its website names of important people, churches, etc, that really have nothing to do with a church. You are advocating that churches do this in order to draw more visitors, that is, rank higher on Google.

I have to ask, is that ethical?

Also, please define "backlinks." Not everyone browsing this forum will understand what you mean by that.

Finally, would you mind providing a URL to a web page with more information about cron codes and how they can be used to increase internet traffice? I did a Google search for this phrase and didn't find anything that seemed to relate to what you're talking about specifically. I believe that people who browse this forum would be very interested in knowing more about this technique. Thanks in advance for doing this.

[olddirtret]

Interesting post.. I too would like to know more GW

Here is an interesting site that has some helpful information about church web sites.
http://www.internetevangelismday.com/church-site-tips.php

This adds to what Carol posted.. Also I agree with point number 8 of Carol's post..

[Guitar Praise]

Forum administrator's note: Please see this post by me about Mr. Williams, which explains why I have banned him: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5268&postcount=15

Hi GW,

Again, thanks for posting.

First, please hit the Return or Enter key twice between paragraphs when writing posts. The resulting double-spacing makes posts much easier to read. I've edited your post (the one to which I am responding) to add the double spacing.

So, it sounds to me that you advocating that a church should include on its website names of important people, churches, etc, that really have nothing to do with a church. You are advocating that churches do this in order to draw more visitors, that is, rank higher on Google.

I have to ask, is that ethical?

Also, please define "backlinks." Not everyone browsing this forum will understand what you mean by that.

Finally, would you mind providing a URL to a web page with more information about cron codes and how they can be used to increase internet traffice? I did a Google search for this phrase and didn't find anything that seemed to relate to what you're talking about specifically. I believe that people who browse this forum would be very interested in knowing more about this technique. Thanks in advance for doing this.

Hi David I'll try double spacing, I was single spacing I guess that doesn't work here?

First cron codes work in a way like a clock does, you can place cron codes on other blog sites or websites, and once ever 30 seconds it will grab someone online and place your web address in there favorite place area saved on there computer.
Example - There are thousands of cron codes use in many different ways, for different jobs of all kinds, an easy cron code could be like a clock ticking backwards, from today till new years, and once ever hour on your website it will say 10 days 9 hours till New Years 2009.....then 10 days 8 hours and ect.......A cron code is also called a ( Cron Job ) it's simply a work horse that can be program to do a job online, and you can link web sites together to increase the power of this.


Here's another example.....if you ever go on ebay and look at the ebay main Pulse Page......only the top sellers with the highest watcher count can get on there. Well to tell you the truth all those people are cheating, they use cron codes that take people off the Internet and force them to become an ebay watcher of their sale, and they do this using a cron code. Infact I have these codes, but I do not use them in my new system. To me they are out dated. They are not honest, but you can use a cron code and do it honest. It's up to the user, if you own a car you can drive 70 miles another on the freeway if that's your speed limit........but you can also drive 120 miles an hour......but sooner or later you'll get in trouble.

Cron codes can be used for good, I won't go into this much more, but I'll tell you this, corn codes have been around with computers since 1968 so they are nothing new, maybe that shocks people, but the computer mouse also has been around since 1968.....both are true. Try doing searches on corn codes and cron job or cron jobs,or HOW CRON CODES WORK,I don't have any favorite sites on cron codes.....but do some searches and you'll pull up a few thousand pages online, I saw a few on there today.....so it's just how you ask your browser for the cron code or cron job info. Or try typing in , MY BEST CRON CODE....maybe someone will show you their's....you just need to think how people word it, anyways.... another idea.....you can program your website using a cron code to send out an emails once a week to remind people of great deals on your site, or a contest and the clock is ticking so check our site out now before the deadline ends.........there's a million ways to use cron code, some are very top secret and used my the armed forces.....much is cutting egde stuff in the newer codes.


So simply a cron code is a way of getting a job done by using a set pattern of numbers.....it would take me far to long to teach iut here, and I haven't looked up cron codes on for 2 years or more when doing research, but I'd go online and type in the browser, How Cron Jobs work, or how cron codes work, or Hacking with cron codes, just anything so you can learn about them.

I wouldn't use them illegally, but as web designers we should know about cron codes because there are a lot of people aready doing this out there, it's nothing new. I will say that everything I am talking about is old hat to me, I learn this stuff years ago. And I still know cron codes can do a work horse of jobs for websites.

As far as the reference to the top 100 people in a buisness, or lets say gospel music......lets take an example......you set up a web site, then at the bottom of the page add a list like. My favortie Top 100 Gospel Singers. or top 100 songs....and make a list and don't even talk about history, the list will do the job it's self.
1.)Gospel singer A - 2.) Gospel singer B - 3.) Gospel Singer C

My opinion in ranking websites is you must out think, everyone else, and you must use every powerful idea you can come up with to get ranked. Sure there's way more to this than I am saying. The reason I won't post my method here is because I can rank world wide using my system, I don't post this system on my signatures ever, because I don't want people to study my codes and figure out what I am doing. On my website in my signature you can look it over but you're not going to find anything and the reason why is simple, it's a ministry and I don't want any codes on it. I don't try an rank ministries of mine. I use the website as a place people can find me on forums only. So yes I have a few links going to the site. If I want to rank it I can, but I see no need in that as of now.And I know this may confuse people, but I am not into the minstry to make money, but if I have a webpage for say the CD's I give away at concerts and for the few forums I post on then that's all it's for. My ministry site is for the people I know and who know me.I already have over 2 million posts other people have made about my music online, I don't need anymore.

I will tell you this, I am designing a new Commercial Business site and it's under construction and also rank number 1 on Google, maybe in a few months I'll share that site. It has nothing to do with ebooks or selling anything here, it's a about selling commercial Businesses Online that have to do with gas stations, stores, shopping centers,and businesses of all kinds.What I do is promise to rank any buiness being sold on top of Google for 2 percent of the sale. I have a gas station right now at 1.4 Million and a buyer looking at it. It's still under consrtuction but it's also up and running in some area's and ranked.......so I know what I am doing.

I plan on doing this for 18 months and then going into the minstry full time if possible and sell the website at that point. My main goal is to provide a ministry that doesn't need money from a church offering, but a ministry that God provides using other means, yet I am talking a huge ministry here. My feeling is when you ask nothing of people such as offerings at gospel concrets those people will come back over and over again, I feel Gods salvation is free, so how can I charge also....I can't, everything the Lord gives me is to be used for His Glory.
And I feel church websites should also be veiw with the Power, the love and the Glory of the Lord. The only trouble is I still feel to get ranked, we have to play the worlds games and fight for rankings, and this still leads me to believe it's wrong to waste time this way..

I will say that Gospel forums like this are a good thing, a very good thing. It's a place for higher learning. Again these are my veiw points and I am not trying to insult anyone.
Anyways take care..... C ya GW

P.S. Oooooooops....almost for got....you wanted to know about backlinks.....
backlinks are links aimed at your website. With out having a few back links Google will not think your website is worth the time to ranked it. Mainly because Google ranks sites that people visit. In other words a website must have some value to get ranked, so even if you have the best quality keyworded site, if no one is linked to your site then google says to it's self this site just isn't important enough to get ranked. Truth is I had a site ranked number 1 on Google with just 3 backlinks.A good number of backlinks to start off with before submitting your site would be 35, then try and build it up over the years to at least 1000 backlinks or more...but take your time... Now large sites that have a higher PR ranking can quickly rank your site higher and much quicker. But still Top Keywords content ranks sites mainly.

To get back links built fast to your site, just go on a few forums like this one, use the signature to post a link to your website, every time you make a post you then have another backlink to your website.
Here's a trick I do, I go on Google, and type in a subject like Aciustic Guitar, then I type in the browser on Google, ( Acoustic Guitar Anonymous Post Blogspot )
Then I pull up a few blogs from Googles Blogspot under the Anonymous posts, and I can post a link in someones blog and that creates a solid backlink to my websites. So why do I use the term Anonymous?.....because it brings up all the post where anyone without an account can post on a blog site. You don't need a password.And you don't have to wait for the site owner to approve it, the link is active fast. Also...a hint Google likes to rank it's Blogspot sites, you get higher rankings to your website if you post some links from Googles Blogspots members.

[flutem3]

Hi GW,

So, it sounds to me that you advocating that a church should include on its website names of important people, churches, etc, that really have nothing to do with a church. You are advocating that churches do this in order to draw more visitors, that is, rank higher on Google.

I have to ask, is that ethical?

Also, please define "backlinks." Not everyone browsing this forum will understand what you mean by that.

Hi, to One and All,

I know that most of us need/want to increase the traffic on our websites. However, "keyword stuffing" for lack of a better term, does not seem to me to be all that ethical. It also does not seem ethical to pad the links to a website by using anonymous back links. If there is a back-link to our website, and there aren't many, I would like to be somewhat certain that they are more or less legitimate. I do not do anything anonymously...and that includes padding the links to our website.

Would I like for our website to be ranked higher? Of course, we all do. But I am not so certain that I want to take advantage of the system...or to key in to the "chinks" in the system to do so. I want our website to be 100% legitimate even if we are ranked at the bottom of the list.

Maybe what is being said is absolutely legitimate. I do not know. But it doesn't seem right somehow. Perhaps it is because I do not understand the system well enough. That is a possibility. But until I understand for certain, I will continue to do what I know is ethical...including footnotes at times. :D

Merry Christmas to one and all,

Carol

[Guitar Praise]

Forum administrator's note: Please see this post by me about Mr. Williams, which explains why I have banned him: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5268&postcount=15

Hi GW,

So, it sounds to me that you advocating that a church should include on its website names of important people, churches, etc, that really have nothing to do with a church. You are advocating that churches do this in order to draw more visitors, that is, rank higher on Google.

I have to ask, is that ethical?

Also, please define "backlinks." Not everyone browsing this forum will understand what you mean by that.

Hi, to One and All,

I know that most of us need/want to increase the traffic on our websites. However, "keyword stuffing" for lack of a better term, does not seem to me to be all that ethical. It also does not seem ethical to pad the links to a website by using anonymous back links. If there is a back-link to our website, and there aren't many, I would like to be somewhat certain that they are more or less legitimate. I do not do anything anonymously...and that includes padding the links to our website.

Would I like for our website to be ranked higher? Of course, we all do. But I am not so certain that I want to take advantage of the system...or to key in to the "chinks" in the system to do so. I want our website to be 100% legitimate even if we are ranked at the bottom of the list.

Maybe what is being said is absolutely legitimate. I do not know. But it doesn't seem right somehow. Perhaps it is because I do not understand the system well enough. That is a possibility. But until I understand for certain, I will continue to do what I know is ethical...including footnotes at times. :D

Merry Christmas to one and all,

Carol
from GW
Hi what I am saying is that it's not worth the time wasted creating many of the websites today in my opinion, ......but.....if you want to compete you have no choice but to use all the tools out there that you can find.

And I am not talking about cheating, I am simply giving you the truth how things are done in the Internet world,I am trying to just open your eyes, I feel Christians are very blinded by the Internet at times...and the reason is easy, as Gods Children maybe we shouldn't partake of worldly ideals. I have been online for years, and I have made over 29,000.00 in one month alone and averaged over 8000.00 a month online, I made a lot of money over the years......but the Internet is becoming a very evil place, it's far worse than it was 10 years ago or even 3 years ago. As trying to rank websites I see it takes so much time for the average church goer that it seems to take their eyes off Jesus. I've seen Christians become frustrated, by beating there head against the wall trying to get rank on Google, many hoping for a miracle that there site gets ranked high......but think about this, if you rank your website high above other Church websites, then you just knocked off your bothers website in Christ, yes only 10 can be on the Top page on Google.........but Millions want on that page....think about it.
What if someone else's church was doing a lot of work helping people in need.But you ranked your website and you're not helping anyone at all..........now a valuable website for Christ is gone, has anyone really thought of that one, how it can hurt Gods Ministries? When you have the power to to what you want online you have to use it wisely as a Christian...........I know, no one wants to hear this. But I speak the truth and somewhere deep down I know other Christians know I am trying to be truthfull here.
This is why I don't rank my gospel sites......but I could take any top ranking anytime I want at will and do it easy enough, yet...... God allows me to see the whole picture....and veiw the value of His work through others online. I have the power to choose, and I choose not to knock off other Churches or Ministries......now this is my opinion and it works for me. But in the business world, I do think differently and I am very competitive, But I will not hurt Gods work being done by others online......I hope I make this point clearly.



Any ways ...as I have said before, I don't use anything on my Gospel websites as codes, and as far as backlinks, I don't have that many, because I am not trying to have a ton of them. I am not stacking the deck.

Now if you went to one of my guitar sites, or business sites they stand at over 1000 backlinks each. I figure a good website needs at least 5000 backlinks.
But I can still rank any website with less than 35 backlinks, so getting ranked has nothing to do with back link numbers . I'm sure you have check out my Living For God page ministry site,it's just one of many I have,and I just made that one a few weeks ago and I left it that way, I am not coding the site, nor am I trying to run up backlinks, so if you typed in , on Yahoo, LinkDomain:Mysite.com........you might find 45 to 50 backlinks or so......but as I have already mentioned there are no codes and no cheating being done on the site, nor do I cheat in any way on my other business sites. As far as the info I gave on anonymous post , that's done not to hide my name, that's to find blogs that allow links posted to websites faster, you don't need permission... these website owers allow links and comments posted that's why they are a BLOG...right - think about it, yet....by keying in the word anonymous you find these websites faster otherwise it could take you months of searching......the Internet is set up so you can ask a question and get an answer......people fail online because they don't understand how to learn about subjects online, people fail to ask Google questions, .....just think now......there are people who openly allow post on there blogs, it's a faster way to get backlinks posted, there's no waiting ever, there is nothing wrong with that.......I usually leave a link and say, something about the conversation taking place on that blog.It's done ever day, all I have done by using the word anonymous is cut out the 100 Million other sites that don't allow posting..........I hope you get the point. IT IS FASTER.....safe and legal, and totally ok in Gods eyes.....because a Blog is for posting comments and links.......if you don't think so you need the learn much more about the Internet. Blogs were designed for this....that's why they are called blogs

Again if you think this is wrong, then maybe having a church online isn't for you after all........it's very competitive the Internet and yes other churches are doing what I have told you already.The only difference most don't understand Cron Codes and Flashplayer codes. Flashplayer codes go far beyond video streaming and talking play back, they can be use to attrack Millions of people into websites from around the world ......But I have already said to much.

My veiw point here is not to help people cheat........no it's to open your eyes to what is really taking place..........maybe you think I am a nut...if so that's ok....but.....I am revealing truths here, trying to save you time and money. All I am saying is this, ask the Lord, is a Christian website really what you should be doing ? and if God speaks to your heart and say yes...............then go for it all out 100%..........But in my opinion....I personally think all this does is side track us as Christians.

If you want to study how hackers do it, check out Blackhat hackers online and black hat forums, then you'll become sick at how much cheating is really going on online................this is why I developed my new system, it's my system it works differently and it's legal..........so far I have not said a word about what I do, and I won't , not because I have something to hide, but because everyone in the world will copy me..........If you mine a goldmine are you going to let the whole world know where your goldmine is.......NO you would not. My system could be worth millions to me, and I can use that money for the Lord. It took many years to create it. And no I am not being selfish either. I earned it. The Lord allows His people to find a way in life, and His people have gifts, I plan to share my ministry the Lord has given me by, doing everything for free..............I can't do that if I give out the info. And by the way I really do have websites with far more than 1000 backlinks and I do have ranking on top of Google at near 200 Million search page results, those are huge numbers......and huge traffic into my sites, huge traffic = Big dollars and I plan to use that for Gods Kingdom.........and to do it without cheating at all.

as I said these are my veiw points.
C ya Merry Christmas
GW Williams

[Guitar Praise]

Forum administrator's note: Please see this post by me about Mr. Williams, which explains why I have banned him: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5268&postcount=15

Hi GW,

So, it sounds to me that you advocating that a church should include on its website names of important people, churches, etc, that really have nothing to do with a church. You are advocating that churches do this in order to draw more visitors, that is, rank higher on Google.

I have to ask, is that ethical?

Also, please define "backlinks." Not everyone browsing this forum will understand what you mean by that.

Hi, to One and All,

I know that most of us need/want to increase the traffic on our websites. However, "keyword stuffing" for lack of a better term, does not seem to me to be all that ethical. It also does not seem ethical to pad the links to a website by using anonymous back links. If there is a back-link to our website, and there aren't many, I would like to be somewhat certain that they are more or less legitimate. I do not do anything anonymously...and that includes padding the links to our website.

Would I like for our website to be ranked higher? Of course, we all do. But I am not so certain that I want to take advantage of the system...or to key in to the "chinks" in the system to do so. I want our website to be 100% legitimate even if we are ranked at the bottom of the list.

Maybe what is being said is absolutely legitimate. I do not know. But it doesn't seem right somehow. Perhaps it is because I do not understand the system well enough. That is a possibility. But until I understand for certain, I will continue to do what I know is ethical...including footnotes at times. :D

Merry Christmas to one and all,

Carol
Hi I am just trying to open peoples eyes to the truth......the more you know, the better you can judge...also my ministry website is new , I really haven't put any backlinks on it yet there maybe 50 only, but I do have sites ranked over the top on Google page searches with over 200,000,000 Million ranking.........and I have 1000's and 1000's of backlinks........but I don't backlink my gospel sites, just my professional Business sites......hope that helps you. Maybe in the furture I'll show you a site...... but not right now. Because everyone in the world will copy my method people would figure it out it may take them a year, but I'll cash in by then and get out.
Thanks GW
Thanks GW Williams

[flutem3]

Hi what I am saying is that it's not worth the time wasted creating many of the websites today in my opinion, ......but.....if you want to compete you have no choice but to use all the tools out there that you can find.

Hi, GW

There is one thing you need to remember. It is not up to you to decide whether websites are worth creating or not. I might see a website that I think is dreadful...and I have. However, I recognize that the person is probably a beginner and is trying to build a church website as a contribution to his/her church. The idea is not to compete with the world necessarily.

And, GW, I do have a choice. I can choose to use whatever tools I want to use. If some of the tools don't fit my thinking, then I am free not to use them. Maybe the website will suffer. I don't know that. And maybe it is just the way the good Lord wants it to be. I don't know that either.

I tend to work on our website in a prayerful manner...at least when I don't allow myself to become distracted which is very easy to do. It is more than a website. It is a gift to anyone who will accept it as such. I finished putting the cantata on the computer. What a joy to do! Now, those who were unable to attend can listen to it. And they know that. Yes, it would be great if lots of people heard it.

www.wabashfirstumc.org/sermon_player.html JOY CAME DOWN - cantata

I would like for you to give us several descrete steps numbered 1., 2., 3., 4., etc. which would improve a website's ranking on Google. I am thinking in terms of simple things...nothing fancy.

I would also like the URL which goes to the website which you said was first among many. I would like to check it out. Thanks!

Merry Christmas to One and All!!!

Carol

[Guitar Praise]

Forum administrator's note: Please see this post by me about Mr. Williams, which explains why I have banned him: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5268&postcount=15

Hi what I am saying is that it's not worth the time wasted creating many of the websites today in my opinion, ......but.....if you want to compete you have no choice but to use all the tools out there that you can find.

Hi, GW

There is one thing you need to remember. It is not up to you to decide whether websites are worth creating or not. I might see a website that I think is dreadful...and I have. However, I recognize that the person is probably a beginner and is trying to build a church website as a contribution to his/her church. The idea is not to compete with the world necessarily.

And, GW, I do have a choice. I can choose to use whatever tools I want to use. If some of the tools don't fit my thinking, then I am free not to use them. Maybe the website will suffer. I don't know that. And maybe it is just the way the good Lord wants it to be. I don't know that either.

I tend to work on our website in a prayerful manner...at least when I don't allow myself to become distracted which is very easy to do. It is more than a website. It is a gift to anyone who will accept it as such. I finished putting the cantata on the computer. What a joy to do! Now, those who were unable to attend can listen to it. And they know that. Yes, it would be great if lots of people heard it.

www.wabashfirstumc.org/sermon_player.html (http://www.wabashfirstumc.org/sermon_player.html) JOY CAME DOWN - cantata

I would like for you to give us several descrete steps numbered 1., 2., 3., 4., etc. which would improve a website's ranking on Google. I am thinking in terms of simple things...nothing fancy.

I would also like the URL which goes to the website which you said was first among many. I would like to check it out. Thanks!


Merry Christmas to One and All!!!


Carol

Hi Carol I am not telling anyone not to create a website.
I am simply telling you the truth about ranking a website, without rankings your not going to have very many people veiw your site. Lets say a website has over 2000 backlinks on other peoples sites, in a months time you might get 1000 hits, or about 1 hit for every 2 backlinks. Yet if you're ranked on Google there's a good chance you'll get at least 500 to 1000 hits a day. or 15,000 to 30,000 hits a month. And lets face facts if we are online, then the whole world can veiw our websites right , it becomes a world wide ministry. And then you're in competition with fellow Christians and Business sites and yes there are Christian Business sites under all different Categories online.

I notice you state it's for me to decide if you create a website or not, I think you should go back and please re-read what I am saying, infact I stated something close to this( If you know God is telling you to create a website, then GO FOR IT !) didn't I say that?.........I'll have to check and see, but I have a very good memory. And I am not trying to argue.

Instead I am just trying to inform people how much work it takes to get ranked. And please understand people do get ranked once in a great while, even when they know nothing about what they are doing, it does happen, but if they tried to do it again they can't.........so how do I know, because people have emailed asking questions how I get ranked on top Google any time I desire to. They want the same rankings, but they have not earned it, I did years of study. When I first started out 18 years ago it took me 3 weeks to get a site ranked, I tried to do it again and it took another 8 months, so what ranked me in those early years was nothing more than an accident. So I began searching for answers, and it took untill about 1 year ago that I figured out the perfect system....or close to it, now that's 18 years of study.

My averaged rankings on web sites up to 2 years ago was about 75% of the time I got ranked in the top 10, and most times in the top 5 spots on Google. A year ago I was up to about 85%.......and today now about 95 to 98 %, I don't think I can make it any closer than what I have today.

Now how valuable is my system, I have had people online wanting to know what I know and have ask me for the Info, I have been offered over $2000,00 to $5000,00 a pop from online retail sellers. But I will not sell it. And I will not give this info out.

Carol please go back and read all that I wrote, I gave you a ton of info already,
1.) Study the top 10 sites and learn the Keywords and the secret Keywords they use..... example - ( Gas Station For Sale,Mini Mart Convienence Store ) Can you spot the keywords........? The truth is they all are Keywords, even the word ( For ) as in (For Sale) So why is the word (For) a Keyword......well how many times to you see items saying ( For Sale ) ?.....get my point, sometimes people miss the easy Keywords? and they do it, just because they are not thinking. Study the titles, the descriptions on Googles top 10 more than anything, then study each website ranked in the top 10 and look for common Keywords, make a list of the top 20 keywords, then make a list of the top 50 Keywords, take a look at how many times those keywords are used, because you have to use more of those keywords than the other guy.
In other words to be the best, you have to beat the best........it's that simple it really is,.
another hint don't study the 2nd page of Google or the 3rd page, it does you no good, those people aren't ranked in the top 10, you only need to know the info about the top 10. Also check and see just how big there websites are.
2.) spend a few days designing your first 4 paragraphs so they are 80% backed with Keywords, but try and make it look and feel as a real write up, so it doesn't appear your stacking the deck.
3.)Get at least 35 Bascklinks from websites with the same subject matter as you have.

4.) To get ranked faster on Google, get backlinks aimed to you from higher PR sites.Did you know it takes only 19 - PR6 websites linked to you to get your own website ranked as a PR6 website. But......it takes 94,500 PR1 sites to get ranked as a PR6......this mean the value of just 19 PR6 Sites is so much more powerful.

5.) Build Your Backlinks up to at least 5000 if you can, it will take some time to do that.
6.) If you want to see how many Backlinks other people have and who's linking to your competition online, then go on yahoo, and type this example.... ( LinkDomain:ebay.com ) and you'll pull up all of ebay's backlinks......you can do this with any webiste, but..........besure you leave off the( http://) only type in the rest of the address....... Like this..... ( LinkDomain:Microsoft.com ) Or ( LinkDomain:Yourwebsite.com ) but just leave off the ( http://) also leave off the www. at first you'll say I don't want to waste time studying this.......well if you're smart you will, because there's a ton to be learned doing this, you'll learn what it takes to get the best backlinks and who offers them, and why are they linking to these sites, there's a lot to learn there and can be applied to your sites.

7.) once you get going then learn about codes and ect..........even if you don't want to use them because, you'll spot what other people are doing.

8.) learn to veiw other peoples web sites and codes online......just go on ant web site and click the right side of your mouse and in that menus it says, ( View Source ) click that and now you can veiw all the codes a webdesigner uses on his site........ you can learn a lot this way.............but you must already know this right?

Hope this helps Carol....
Merry Christmas GW

[David Gillaspey]

Hi GW,

Thanks for your frequent posts lately on the forum, which I host and administer.

As soon as you started posting, I did a background search of you on Google. I quickly found some things that were disturbing to me. But I let you continue to post, because your posts have given us some things to think about, if we can ignore the constant hype and promotion of yourself.

Here's a trick I do, I go on Google, and type in a subject like Aciustic Guitar, then I type in the browser on Google, ( Acoustic Guitar Anonymous Post Blogspot )

Then I pull up a few blogs from Googles Blogspot under the Anonymous posts, and I can post a link in someones blog and that creates a solid backlink to my websites.

Yup, if you can do that, I can do that. And I did.

Here are links to some posts I found on blogs that refer to you and link to one or another of you sites. My comments are in parentheses.

http://iguessimfloating.blogspot.com/2007/07/police-feat-john-mayer-kanye-west.html
http://whatwouldjb.blogspot.com/2007/04/youtube-indie-rock-acoustic-guitar.html
http://musictravellers.blogspot.com/2007/08/crossroads-guitar-festival-2007.html

(Note the exact same posts from a "13 year old girl" gushing about guitar player GW Williams in all of the above. The typos in the posts give them away as having been written by you. Here's a grammar lesson: Spaces follow commas and periods, rather than go in front of them, as has been the case with most of your posts on this forum.)

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/2007/04/comment-of-moment-massey-hall-dvd.html

(Again, you're writing as a 13 year old girl.)

http://detroitdog.blogspot.com/2008/07/leona-helmsley-leaves-billions-to-dogs.html

(Your post cited above has a link to "GW Williams Millionaire Makers" but it's actually a link to "http://gwwilliamsaffiliatemarketingprograms.blogspot.com". When I click on the link, I'm taken to your "Living for God Online" blog. I think most members of this forum would say that "affiliate marketing" and "living for God online" are incompatible.)

http://blog.calvarygf.org/2007/09/sunday-morning-schedule-at-calvary.html

(In the above, you have the audacity to use a church blog to create a backlink to your http://jordanriversguitarforum.blogspot.com/ site. There, you champion yourself as one of the greatest living guitar players, right up there with Eric Clapton.)

http://www.digitalalchemy.tv/2007/06/complete-guide-to-free-music-online.html

(On the above site, you've decided to be a 17 year girl. I note that "she" gives your guitar performance an "AAAA++++ " rating. That looks just like the ratings you got by a reviewer on Amazon.com of your latest album who calls himself "Wind Surfer 'Thomas P Jeffery 3rd' ". See http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AMUMGNJM39E1/ref=cm_cr_dp_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview. You didn't by chance write those reviews yourself, did you? The same ratings show up on a fake press release, I assume also written by you, located here: http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200808/1217645301.html.)

http://iguessimfloating.blogspot.com/2008/04/mp3-lupe-fiasco-superstar-acousticlive.html

(In the above blog post, the writer claims to have attended a concert by you in Seattle in which you received a 45 minute standing ovation. Yeah, right.)

http://susansenator.com/blog/2006/12/while-my-guitar-gently-sleeps.html
http://thenati.blogspot.com/2005/12/arnies-on-levee.html

(In the above two blog posts, you're 9 year old "Bobby Townsend," who is just learning to play guitar and needed his mom's help to write the post. At least that explains the typos.)

http://jeffreykishner.com/lunartunes/2007/03/new-moon-solar-eclipse-in-pisces-march.html

(The site mentioned above is about astrology. Why would someone post about a musician named GW Williams on an astrology site? This time, you called yourself Sally Frenchbrae.)

http://blog.rocknrollpreacher.com/2007/08/formerly-aint-same-as-has-been.html

(You posted as Sally Frenchbrae again.)

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/cappuccinosmom/429277/

(You posted about yourself on a blog for home schoolers. How low will you go?)

Anyway, I think you get my point.

I'll allow your longer posts to stay on the forum, as there's some truth and relevance to your comments, though "buyer beware." I'm going to make sure that buyers (members and browsers of this forum) are aware of your background by adding an administrator's note to each of your longer posts pointing to this post.

I've deleted your shorter posts. I assume the purpose of those was just to create backlinks to your site.

I've banned you now from making any further posts.

You stated in some of your posts that you plan to go into full-time ministry. For the sake of the Kingdom, please don't.

[flutem3]

Hi, David and All,

David, I also tracked down GW. I was not too thrilled with what I saw. Thank you from banning him from the site. I think he was just using your forum for his own benefit. And he did pick up a bit of traffic from it. But he won't get any from me any more. He also had some good ideas.

If I am wrong, then I will pay for making the kind of decisions I have about him. But to me "ballot stuffing" and "keyword stuffing" are the same unscrupulous activity. One is definitely illegal...but the other is suspect. I still would like to see the website on which there is the kind of traffic about which he was talking.

GW, you taught us how to check up on you if we didn't already know. We have become "forensic readers" on here so we know who has written what. My writing is so distinctive I even recognize it myself. :) And I know that David, GeneralHavok, Mr. Belfry, Wolfgang Jack, and a number of others do as well. I could write anything anywhere, and they could read the material and correctly say, "Carol wrote that."

However, I do want to increase traffic...but I want it to be because the site deserves the traffic...not because I have "tricked" the system. I know you have worked for many years with computers. That is obvious. In comparison, I am a beginner. But until I know for certain that an action is ethical, I am not going to do it. I have to live with myself, and I will answer to God. That is true. I would just as soon not run any more risks than life presents daily.

GW, a church is a business. That is true. But it has some special features to it that most other businesses don't have. The most important one is that it is accountable in everything that it does to God.

God bless you and guide you in your activities,

Carol

www.wabashfirstumc.org/sermon_player.html Cantata - Joy Came Down

[olddirtret]

Thanks David

When I first started to read GW's posts, things just didn't sound right. But since I'm just a newbie here, I decided to sit back and see if I was the only one that saw through his posts. I'm glad you and others found him out.

BTW-I retired from law enforcement and I always said that if something didn't look or sound right, it probably wasn't right.

Hope everyone has a great start to the New Year.

[David Gillaspey]

... it's very competitive the Internet and yes other churches are doing what I have told you already.The only difference most don't understand Cron Codes and Flashplayer codes. Flashplayer codes go far beyond video streaming and talking play back, they can be use to attrack Millions of people into websites from around the world ......But I have already said to muchActually, I would have liked for Mr. Williams to have said more.

I came across this article the other day, about how Flash can be used subversively, for example, to inject Javascript:

http://eyeonsecurity.org/papers/flash-xss.htm#_Toc18055083

Might be what Mr. Williams was talking about.

[flutem3]

Hi, David,

I thought we were to be done with this fellow. Why is his "stuff" reaching into the forum again?

Or have I misread something or another?

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

The post was by me, quoting Mr. Williams.

The threads in which Mr. Williams participated are not closed. He raised important issues about which church webmasters should be aware. This is true even if Christian values discourage or prohibit us from actually engaging in his practices.

[flutem3]

Hi, David,

Yes, he did. Sorry, I didn't read carefully enough.

Carol

[datarecovery]

Here is an interesting site that has some helpful information about church web sites.
http://www.internetevangelismday.com...-site-tips.php (http://www.internetevangelismday.com/church-site-tips.php)


Carin
http://www.datadoctor.biz (http://www.datadoctor.biz/)