Embedding Fonts in Web Pages

[Websquad]

I just came across a dog-eared copy of PC Magazine from 10.28.03 with the article "Embedding Fonts in Web Pages" ... My curiosity was peaked, and I did a Google search on the subject and came up with several articles to read; all articles appeared dated, referring to Netscape 4, etc. Does anyone have current experience with either of the approaches:
Portable Font Resources
Embedded Open Type.... experience, that is, with a wide range of browsers that are available now? Is this a dead issue?

[generalhavok]

Yes...unfortunately, this is an entirely dead issue.

You can, however, do something similar (but better): use a scripting language like PHP to create Flash images on the fly. It's pretty cool, but works best only on headlines.

Essentially, the script will convert your headlines to Flash and display the contents of the headline tag in the font of your choice, size of your choice, background of your choice, etc. You'll get all the typographical goodness without editing your HTML. Those without the Flash plugin will get your normal CSSified style, and those with it will get your lovely "best-case" stuff.

You can read about this technique, called "Scalable Inman Flash Replacement" here:
http://usabletype.com/weblog/how-and-when-to-use-sifr/

[Danny Carlton]

I use PHP a GD to generate the Hebrew and Greek letters in the lexicon entries for http://phpAV.com. To see it you'd need to do a search, then click on one of the clickable words in the text. A window will open up with the lexicon entry. At the beginning is the Hebrw or Greek word as an image, generated on the fly using GD.

[MeanDean]

... experience, that is, with a wide range of browsers that are available now? Is this a dead issue?Very dead.

As the separation between layout and content continues to be driven by aggregation-friendly and usability compliant websites ...

... and with the realization that the user experience is more about funneling them into actions and/or informational results, less emphasis - if any - is being given to such issues.

[flutem3]

As the separation between layout and content continues to be driven by aggregation-friendly and usability compliant websites ...

... and with the realization that the user experience is more about funneling them into actions and/or informational results, less emphasis - if any - is being given to such issues.

Hi, Dean,

Would you kindly tell me what the above means? I understand the individual words, but I don't understand the concepts you are talking about.

I would appreciate the illumination. I am the person on here who has, perhaps, learned the most because I came to this forum knowing the least. The least can be best describe by the term, newbie par excellence. And that is the truth. David, forum administrator, can confirm that. I am amazed I found this website and forum. But it has been of great help to me. And I know that people on here have helped many others as well.

The joy of this forum is watching the people who stick around after their problems are resolved and assist others with their problems. That is the purpose of a forum...give and take...not just take and run.

Bless us all,

Carol

[MeanDean]

Carol,

When designing a site for any purpose - consider these things first:
who is your target audience?
what are you trying to get them to do &/or believe?In the cases of churches, I would think seekers & members comprise the majority of the target audience.

Getting the former into the church - and encouraging the latter to stay with the church being two rather significant conversion goals (action items).

With that in mind - or with other goals and audiences you might identify as relevant to your site - ask the next question:
do the fonts enhance the conversion goals, or get in the user's way?Different fonts on a page can be as navigationally confusing and eye-strain fatiguing. And depending on an individuals vision and browser, may not render as you think (e.g. aliasing varies). Finally, what happens when such files are blocked by firewalls?

Which explains why this is generally a dead issue.

[MeanDean]

One passing thought - there are very legit, conversion goal oriented uses I can see for embedding fonts.

For example, display of Greek or Hebrew comes to mind. I'm sure there are other church/ministry related type useages as well.

[JackWolfgang]

One passing thought - there are very legit, conversion goal oriented uses I can see for embedding fonts.

For example, display of Greek or Hebrew comes to mind. I'm sure there are other church/ministry related type useages as well.

But aren't those characters included in the Unicode set, and therefore can be encoded using standard methods with standard fonts?

I quote from BibleGateway.com (John 1:1):
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

[JackWolfgang]

I quote from BibleGateway.com (John 1:1)

Digressing for a moment, David, I don't know when you added automatic Bible verse linking (hey, it might even be based on Dean's code), but thank you very much.

[flutem3]

Hey, Dean,

Thank you for your explanation. Now, I know that I should not embed fonts unless I am using Greek, Hebrew, and probably Chinese etc. I will take your advice. :D

Dean, what kind of background do you have for all of this stuff? You explain and write very well just like David, forum administrator, does. What a gift you have!

Even though I didn't know anything about websites when I began, I did think about target audiences. Some of the information I used was the same as when I would write a lengthy paper. One of my favorite questions to ask people on the other forum when they show us websites is "who is going to read this?"

I have some material on our website that only a couple of people have read, but I enjoy having it there. That is reason enough since people are free to choose where they go. However, if people were locked in to a set block of pages as in a book, I would leave them out. Those are some of the advantages of a website.

I am learning the terrific potential of a church website. Most of us don't come close to doing what needs to be done. I don't think most of us know how. I am seeing web ministry in an entirely different light...and that is because I have been on this forum. However, I am still not able to do what needs to be done. I may never be able to do so. But I am going to keep trying. What a wonderful ministry we have!

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

Digressing for a moment, David, I don't know when you added automatic Bible verse linkingHi Jack,

It was among the modifications I installed earlier this year, listed here

http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=542

item #9, but I haven't experimented with myself. Been too busy to add instructions or otherwise promote it. Glad to know it's useful, though. :)

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey

[Danny Carlton]

One passing thought - there are very legit, conversion goal oriented uses I can see for embedding fonts.

For example, display of Greek or Hebrew comes to mind. I'm sure there are other church/ministry related type useages as well.

But aren't those characters included in the Unicode set, and therefore can be encoded using standard methods with standard fonts?

I quote from BibleGateway.com (John 1:1):
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

It would take a while to look up the unicode characters, especially if you are needing specific verses. Also not everyone may have uncode installed. Thre are other methods of ensuring the site visitor sees exactly what you're wanting them to see.

[MeanDean]

Dean, what kind of background do you have for all of this stuff? Here goes, in no particular order than the least being the greatest:
25 years in the field
coupla of degrees in the field
helped Vincent Flanders author 'Son of Web Pages that Suck - leaning good design by looking at bad design'
ran a successful church website for several years (only to hand it off to a 'FrontPager' when I moved)
currenltly the product management director for a Fortune 500 software (priv.held company list) as a service company
made many mistakes and managed to survive them, in fact learn from themI'd prefer if any one point be held important, it's that last one :)

[flutem3]

"made many mistakes and managed to survive them, in fact learn from them"

WOW, Dean,

That is quite a resume`. I am familiar with the above. Five years ago I was in the anti-computer category...somewhat. Many people had said that I would enjoy a computer because I am such a curious person...and that is the truth. But I had no money for a computer anyway. And because of having epilepsy I cannot look at CRT monitors.

However, my dad died and left some money which I had to spend in 30 days because of my being on Medicaid. And that is how I obtained a computer, desk, chair, printer, and paper. I didn't know enough to get a scanner or a CD burner which I subsequently have purchased...the CD burner, not the scanner.

I also bought the book, PC's for Dummies, and here I am with 4 1/2 years of search and destroy behind me. After I had been cruising around on the computer, I discovered a church website which I thought was neat. I called our church, and the pastor at the time said they had been thinking about it for three or four years. I didn't find that too encouraging.

I thought about it for about a month and decided to see if I could find "stuff" with which I could make a church website. Obviously, I did. The joy of it all is that the website has reconnected me to my church. And they have remodeled the place, and I can even go to church now.

Our congregation is not a very computer literate group, but they are improving. Now, I am able to get up in church and "sell" the site so to speak. However, my real hope is to create a good outreach website. There is so much ministry to be done...it is amazing. And the website is the tool in this day and age.

However, I have yet to discover how to make our website "sticky". However, we have a program going this summer which does bring people back to the website each week. The problem for me is how to expand on that when this program is finished. I do not have the answer to that.

I know that you know all kinds of stuff, but I use Homestead to make and host our website and one other. It is too expensive. I am now looking at Blue Voda. We can get a little over a 3 for 1 deal when compared to Homestead. I know that most of you on here would prefer that the rest of us learn to code, but I cannot spend that much time at the computer. Therefore, I do the best I can with my situation. And that is all I can do. I realize that coding is the way to go. I just had to make some choices.

Well, I have now told you more than you ever wanted to know. However, it will give you lots of clues as to why I ask some of the questions I ask. But I would be willing to guess that there are any number of people who read the answers as well. :) They read but don't write. I know on UMConnect there are a lot of people who do that. Then once in a blue moon we hear from someone who has been "out there" reading for years. What fun!

Take care, everyone,

Carol

[JackWolfgang]

One passing thought - there are very legit, conversion goal oriented uses I can see for embedding fonts.

For example, display of Greek or Hebrew comes to mind. I'm sure there are other church/ministry related type useages as well.

But aren't those characters included in the Unicode set, and therefore can be encoded using standard methods with standard fonts?

I quote from BibleGateway.com (John 1:1):
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

It would take a while to look up the unicode characters, especially if you are needing specific verses. Also not everyone may have uncode installed. Thre are other methods of ensuring the site visitor sees exactly what you're wanting them to see.

Actually, I copied and pasted right out of the BibleGateway HTML using the "View Source" button in Chris Pederick's Web Developer Toolbar for Firefox. However, I can understand how putting the Unicode entities together would be time consuming.

As an aside, I will note that Bible Gateway didn't tag it with an appropriate lang attribute.

[MeanDean]

...However, I have yet to discover how to make our website "sticky"...Sticky is only important if your web site is your church.

Otherwise, it's all about conversion goals - that is
who is your target audience?
does your site attract them
does your site get them to perform a desired action, like visit your church on sundayYou'll have to decide whether sticky or conversion goals are the best focus of your site ...

.. for me, I'd rather have a site that gets a person in Sunday school than online Sunday morning fiddlin' with something sticky.

[flutem3]

Hey, Dean,

The website is only "sticky" if the people have been eating sticky-rolls. Oh, those are good.

You are right. I did not say what I meant. I would rather get someone in Sunday School and/or church as well. Or even more importantly would be to enable the person in some way to know Christ.

I am going to tell you something that many website editors don't have the opportunity of knowing from what I have heard from them. On Easter this year I met a couple who decided to come to our church based only on what they saw on the website. I was amazed. That, of course, is what we want.

I think many of us say that if our websites could manage to get one person into our church who would not otherwise have been there, all the work on the website was worth all the time and frustration that went into it. But many of us never do know whether that happened or not.

However, on Easter I was given the gift of that knowledge and could personally welcome the couple myself. Several of us were standing there smiling like crazy. What a joy! What a gift!

But you are absolutely right in your contention. You use the words much more properly than I did. But the nice thing is that by reading them used properly, the next time the issue is raised, I can use the terms properly as well. :D Thank you!

Carol