Music copyright

[flutem3]

Hello to everyone,

I am trying to find the laws which stipulate that we cannot use music, unless it is original, on our websites without copyright clearance.

I just had a guy who has a wonderful music page say that they paid CCLI etc., but I know that does not provide clearance for music as in individual choir numbers or quartets etc. to legally be on the website.

I know with the CCLI license we can record live music...a few, to give to people who are homebound or to sell for no more that $4.00. However, it is not a license to place music on the website.

The guy I was talking to said he would believe it when he saw the law. His page is terrific...but it is illegal. I think he thought I just put our cantatas on the website. But I had written copyright clearance to do so. I mean as in a contract. He is a nice fellow, if a bit stubborn which I can appreciate, but I don't want him and his church to get in trouble.

I tried to find the information on Google, but I seemed to find everything except what I was after.

Any kind of help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Carol,

Copyright law gives copyright owners the right to control use of their creative compositions, unless a law exists that provides specific exemption for certain purposes or under certain conditions.

Thus, there's no law forbidding the posting of music on the internet — there doesn't need to be. It starts out being against the law — period — unless there exists a law specifically allowing such posting for certain purposes or under certain conditions. And I don't believe there is.

You have to get a license or written permission from the copyright owner, therefore, as you did for your cantatas.

One legal way to post copyrighted music on the internet is to obtain a license to do so from one or more of the three "performing rights" organizations, ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. Licenses require a fee, which constitutes a royalty payment.

ASCAP: http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/ (web specific license)

BMI: http://www.bmi.com (appears to be no specific internet license available)

SESAC: http://www.sesac.com/licensing/generallicensing.asp (covers internet, but not specifically)

The problem is, each artist or band typically signs up with just one of these organizations. That means if you purchase an ASCAP license, you can only use music licensed by or through ASCAP. The copyright information at the bottom of every sheet of music, or on the back of a CD jewel case, tells you song by song which organization represents a given song.

I believe you are correct in stating that a CCLI license does not grant the right to put music on a website.

I've been researching church websites of late. Here's a church that appears to have a license from all three organizations:

http://pclive.org/

Note logos at bottom of the page. But please don't copy the site's usage of visitor stats, which is an outdated technique.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[Faithhb_lutheran]

From the CCLI website's church copyright section.

What You Can Do


Print songs, hymns and lyrics in bulletins, programs, liturgies and songsheets for use in congregational singing.
Create your own customized songbooks or hymnals for use in congregational singing.
Create overhead transparencies, slides or use any other format whereby song lyrics are visually projected (such as computer graphics and projection) for use in congregational singing.
Arrange, print and copy your own arrangements (vocal and instrumental) of songs used for congregational singing, where no published version is available.
Record your worship services (audio or video) provided you only record live music. Accompaniment tracks cannot be reproduced. You may charge up to $4 each for audiocassette tapes and CDs, and $12 each for videotapes and DVDs. What You Cannot Do


Photocopy or duplicate octavos, cantatas, musicals, handbell music, keyboard arrangements, vocal scores, orchestrations or other instrumental works.
Translate songs into another language. This can only be done with the approval of the respective publisher.
Rent, sell or lend copies made under the license to groups outside the church or to other churches. (It is OK to distribute recordings to shut-ins, missionaries or others outside the church.)
Assign or transfer the license to another church or group without CCLI's approval.Posting songs to a public website where anyone could download it would break this part of the agreement.

I also put a request into CCLI to see if they offered any package that would cover a church that wanted to ut their recordings online, I will post their response, up here.

[WebMuddler]

A bit off topic but kind of a sidebar question.

My wife runs a preschool for a church. At their "graduation" she wants a slideshow. I'm putting together something in Windows Moviemaker. Questions regarding the audio: 1) Can I use music that I rip from CDs I own for the presentation to the group without violating any rights? 2) If she wanted to offer copies to parents as a fundraiser for the church, I assume that we would have to take the music off and replace with "stock" music such as what comes with windows? I also assume that music never becomes "public domain" such as a piece of classical music since the performer would still have rights? 3)can we simply give copies away to those who ask?


Are there other good sources of music I can use for a project such as this besides what comes with Media Player?

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Mark,

Sorry for the long delay in answering the question. Busy weekend.

Can I use music that I rip from CDs I own for the presentation to the group without violating any rights?No, because you would be violating copyright law. (Yes, churches do this all the time, but it's not legal.)

There are four copyrights involved here:

1) The copyright owned by the songwriter(s).

2) The copyright owned by the artist, band, or orchestra that performed the song. Sometimes the same as the songwriter(s), sometimes not.

3) The copyright related to the particular recording of the song that you want to use.

4) The copyright related to the collection of songs on a CD, of which the song is a part. (If you purchase a single .mp3 file and download it, I presume this does not apply.) I believe this is actually not called a copyright, but something else, but the point still applies.

Copyright law specifically gives one the right to make copies of purchased music for personal use, but that wouldn't apply in this case.

I assume that we would have to take the music off and replace with "stock" music such as what comes with windows?The most legal thing to do would be to use stock music (called "royalty-free" music) from the start.

I also assume that music never becomes "public domain" such as a piece of classical music since the performer would still have rights? Correct. Commercial recordings of classical music (or classical hymns) are not in the public domain, since copyrights 3 and 4 above still apply. Commercial recordings may very well fall into the public domain after some very long period of time, but that's not going to be soon.

3)can we simply give copies away to those who ask? Nope. The very use of the material from the CD constitutes the violation of copyright, not whether or not you charged for the material. (By contrast, as a comparison, the question of whether you can show a film clip during a sermon is related to whether an admission fee is charged or not, which of course, is usually not the case.)

Are there other good sources of music I can use for a project such as this besides what comes with Media Player?The key question is, do you need vocals behind the slideshow? That's the reason churches often put a popular Christian song behind a slide show or video because of the "message" in the lyrics. (It's not legal to do so, however.) But if you can live without the vocals and a "message", then SonicFire (http://www.smartsound.com) is an excellent way to add background tracks. Or do a Google search for "royalty free music."

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[Websquad]

<snip> .... please don't copy the site's usage of visitor stats, which is an outdated technique.
Good job, Kyle, with the CCLI summary.

Re: Visitor stats. I believe that some of these countries are closed to Christian workers, and have suggested to that site's webmaster to prune his list ... folks could be in harm's way. IP addresses are so easy to track.

Re: Copyright. Is there any "gentlemen's agreement" regarding posting on the web of short excerpts from a live performance of music at your church? A 60-second clip, etc. Does anyone do that?

[JackWolfgang]

<snip> .... please don't copy the site's usage of visitor stats, which is an outdated technique.
Good job, Kyle, with the CCLI summary.

Re: Visitor stats. I believe that some of these countries are closed to Christian workers, and have suggested to that site's webmaster to prune his list ... folks could be in harm's way. IP addresses are so easy to track.

Re: Copyright. Is there any "gentlemen's agreement" regarding posting on the web of short excerpts from a live performance of music at your church? A 60-second clip, etc. Does anyone do that?

The only way I would know of a "gentleman's agreement" would be if you were performing something that was composed by one of your church members.

[Websquad]

Hi, Jack!The only way I would know of a "gentleman's agreement" would be if you were performing something that was composed by one of your church members.
One of the earlier posts made reference to ASCAP. I visited the linked site, and it had an "Experimental License Agreement for Internet Sites and Services - Release 5.0". I downloaded this PDF file, and it contained this under "Definitions:"
Your "Internet Site or Service" is a site or service accessible via the Internet or a similar transmission facility from which audio content is transmitted to "Users" and from which "Users" may not download or otherwise select particular musical compositions, unless such compositions are sixty (60) seconds or less in duration, and that ....I think the 60 second thing is worthy of further research. My web team for my church is a retired Patent/Copyright attorney, who, unfortunately, is touring Italy as we speak ... when he returns, I'll have him do some reseach.