Media Streaming?

[calemjess]

I have never done media streaming and it is my goal to get our preacher's sermons online by the first of the year.

Currently, we have a sound technician who records his sermons on CD. Do I just need software to convert the cda file format to mp3?

We are currently using easyaddress.net as our web host and it states the files must be in wmv, wma, mp3, mid or ram files to upload.

I have read so much stuff that I am thoroughly confused and I'm just thinking since it is already in cd format.......convert to mp3 and upload......or is that too simple? Everything I've read seems so complicated. Does anyone have any good software to recommend for this? Thanks so much for any guidance!!

[chrisb_ebc]

Hi calemjess,
It really is that simple. Pulling that cda file isn't really a web readable option - plus the file size would be enormous! Typically you insert CD into computer, use audio/media player to convert the files. I use iTunes. Its pretty simple. You can adjust volume, in and out points and normalize your track accordingly. Gives some basic editing options in that aspect. iTunes let you do mp3 format - if you want wma you will need to use windows media player. I am not sure how that works - never have used it. Hope that helps.

[Ebroach n NC]

Helo Calemjess,

In the past year I had tried to do some media streaming but was not happpy with the presentation of it..

Here is my futal attempt.. No laughing please.

http://www.greensborocogop.org/sermon/

audio does not work. have relocated mp3 files.

so I stopped. Kept recording but stopped putting it on the web.

I use software package to record called EZtracker found here.

http://www.aletheia.tv/aletheia/page8.html

It is written by a guy named Mark Rouse. It is free. donations accepted.

It records in 1 of 2 methods. 1: records the sermon in preset track sizes aka 3 min 3.5 min etc. 2: records the sermon as one large file . WMA..

I then use Roxio Cd Creator to convert to a MP3 . I played around with quality to get the file down to about 15 - 20 meg.

I then wanted to podcast. I found the best info here at Yahoo

http://podcasts.yahoo.com/publish/3

Basically . copy your mp3 to your website. Make the xml file on the yahoo site your own and place on your website.

Then register with Itunes..

http://www.greensborocogop.org/podcast/

Hope this helps.

It was easier than I thought once I found that Yahoo sample.

Billy B
Greensboro, NC

[JackWolfgang]

Our church is NOT streaming our audio. However, you can download audio recordings of our sermons from our web site.

You may be tempted to ask "what's the difference?". The difference is that with streaming media, the file is downloading while the playing is occurring or a live source is sending data to the requesting computer in order to play the media in near-real-time. Downloading is just that. The content is up on the web site, and people can download it and then play it.

Streaming Example: http://klove.com/listen/
Download Example: [See Edit Below]

How we do it
Our church offers our sermons for download as 32 kilobit MP3 files. The welcome, introduction, music, and communion and offering meditations are removed from the file. Music is removed due to CCLI licensing restrictions.

Our services are recorded in two ways most weeks.

The sermon itself is recorded to cassette tape. The recording deck is controlled by the sound board tech. He manually starts the tape at the beginning of the sermon and lets it run through the end of service.

The whole service is recorded with a 1 gigabyte Creative Zen Nano Plus (http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=12720) which can be purchased from a number of sources for approx. US$75. This is my personal unit, and it was selected for its line-in jack and built-in MP3 encoder. The service is recorded at 128 kilobits which produces a 50-85 megabyte file. Right now, the line in is run from splitter in the headphone jack of the sound board to the MP3 player. We have the cables to run it from the RCA jacks on the back of the board that currently drive the cassette deck without disconnecting the cassette deck. That will get done when the sound board tech and I have time.

If I need to use the cassette for producing the MP3 file, I have a stereo with cassette deck in our office next to the computer. I have a cable from Radio Shack (I don't know the part number as I bought it several years ago) that connects the headphone jack with the line-in jack (a front panel jack is very helpful) on my computer.

If I use the MP3 player's recording, I merely transfer the file over the included USB cable (again a front panel jack is very helpful). The Creative Zen Nano Plus acts like a USB Flash Drive when used with Windows 98 and above, so you can drag and drop using Windows Explorer.

I then use Audacity, which is an open source audio editing software. I downloaded it from their home page at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/. You will also need the LAME MP3 encoder (available from the Audacity site) if you want to encode MP3 files. I found Audacity pretty easy to use, and I feel like I continue to improve in my knowledge of it.

When recording from cassette, I set Audacity's Preferences. On the Audio I/O tab, I select the appropriate recording device. I had to use some trial and error here at first, and I believe that the settings are computer dependent.

Regardless of source, I use Audacity to remove noise as needed, remove the portions of the service I am not uploading, and do any volume adjustments. The help file should be useful in learning how to do this. I then set the MP3 encoding rate to 128 kilobits and export the file to MP3 (named with an _128 at the end, for example, a service today would be 200611Nov17_128.MP3. The duplication of the Month, 11 and Nov, is for sorting purposes and ease of human reading. I find 2006Nov17 easier to read than 20061117, but the computer sorts the second correctly. So the compromise is to duplicate with numbers first so the computer sorts correctly.) If I haven't set the ID3 tags, Audacity prompts me to do so. The ID3 settings I use are as follows:

Title: Sermon Title (for example, last week was "Our Means")
Artist: Who is speaking (usually Jim Fenderson, but there are two Wolfgang sermons in there)
Album: FCC-Tallahassee (an abbreviated name of our church)
Track Number: Week Number (Outlook offers a feature to show them)
Year: The Year of the Sermon
Genre: Speech


After the 128 kilobit MP3 encodes, I go back and encode the 32 kilobit. This is the file that gets uploaded with the naming scheme described above (e.g. 200611Nov17.MP3). I use Filezilla to upload the file to a directory on our web site, and there is a script that automatically reads the contents and creates a list of links. When we go CMS, the links will be with each entry for each sermon along with notes from the sermon.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them here.

The page originally mentioned in this post has been removed since we moved to our CMS. For a current example of sermon audio download on our church's web site, see http://fcctlh.org/?cat=11

[sstress]

Have any of you ever tried using Windows Media Indexer? Makes for some really simple streaming media (near real time) and will run off a standard web server (you can pick your stream rate... lo band, med band, or hi band).

I used it to present this video that my church made as a virtual tour (and one time I streamed the enire movie "apolocypse now" on a local server just to test it. The entire 2 1/2 hour movie was only 100 megs) It worked great :)

http://www.abcfortcollins.org/ See link at bottom right of homepage.

Oh and one more thing, media indexer is free and uses windows media player which is already installed on the majority of pc's.

God bless!
Michael

[JackWolfgang]

Have any of you ever tried using Windows Media Indexer? Makes for some really simple streaming media (near real time) and will run off a standard web server (you can pick your stream rate... lo band, med band, or hi band).

I used it to present this video that my church made as a virtual tour (and one time I streamed the enire movie "apolocypse now" on a local server just to test it. The entire 2 1/2 hour movie was only 100 megs) It worked great :)

http://www.abcfortcollins.org/ See link at bottom right of homepage.

Oh and one more thing, media indexer is free and uses windows media player which is already installed on the majority of pc's.

I've not used Media Indexer, but then again, our church doesn't have the facilities to stream our services in real-time. Also, we're not doing video recordings of our services.

I will, however, note that MP3 files play in Windows Media Player just fine.

[Faithhb_lutheran]

The problem with windows indexer is that it only works with windows media player, so mac users are out of luck.

[sstress]

The problem with windows indexer is that it only works with windows media player, so mac users are out of luck.

No it works :) And has alternatives.. http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia By the way... do mac users really count ;) Just kidding!!

[JackWolfgang]

By the way... do mac users really count ;) Just kidding!!

I know this was a joke, but I feel led to give a theological response:

In Luke 19:10 (http://www.biblegateway.org/bible?version=NASB&passage=Luke+19:10), did Jesus say "The Son of Man has come to seek and save Windows users", and in Romans 3:23 (http://www.biblegateway.org/bible?version=NASB&passage=Romans+3:23) did Paul write, "All Mac users have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"?

Yes, I am a Microsoft guy myself, but I personally thought the whole idea of the web was to be cross-platform compatible; and I thought the idea of evangelism was to reach the world.

[sstress]

I know this was a joke, but I feel led to give a theological response:

In Luke 19:10 (http://www.biblegateway.org/bible?version=NASB&passage=Luke+19:10), did Jesus say "The Son of Man has come to seek and save Windows users", and in Romans 3:23 (http://www.biblegateway.org/bible?version=NASB&passage=Romans+3:23) did Paul write, "All Mac users have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"?

Yes, I am a Microsoft guy myself, but I personally thought the whole idea of the web was to be cross-platform compatible; and I thought the idea of evangelism was to reach the world.

Thats a really good point.

And to your point about reaching the world... I pray that we do not focus so much on the 1-3% of the population (look at your server logs) that we wait until we have the money, capability, and time to post a completely neutral website. I post now and use what is available and reaches the masses as best as possible. Afterward, if time and money allow, I will concern myself with Mac, Unix, WebTV, language translators, ADA standards, etc. We can get so mired in the minutia that we miss the masses all together...

At risk of over-dramatizing this issue..... as I drove past the community park last night, I realized that I live in a dominantly Christian community, but yet the city Christmas lights are set up to serve the minority interests. Amazing. All that energy to work against our own culture and to worry about 1 person who might be offended. At what cost?

[Faithhb_lutheran]

No it works :) And has alternatives.. http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia By the way... do mac users really count ;) Just kidding!!

Indexer won't work with window media player for Mac. At least not th elast time I tried it.

[StubbyD]

I will concern myself with Mac, Unix, WebTV, language translators, ADA standards, etc. We can get so mired in the minutia that we miss the masses all together...

In terms of web access Mac is Unix and vice-versa but I hear what you say about getting ourselves snared in small things that matter not.

One that I believe does matter and should be addressed by all of us web developers, managers, whatever title is what you call ADA standards. From a quick google my guess is this is the same as the UK's Disability Discrimination Act in the UK.

Apart from it being what I would call a moral issue that we comply with these, in the UK it is also a legal issue and one that could end up costing us money if we don't comply. It's also, IMO, not something we have any excuse to ignore as we are called to love the world.

Just my 2p ....

[sstress]

Stu, I agree with you on ADA standards. In truth its just a good habit to get into. I worked for a couple of years on a website called Defuture.com (which is no longer the same as it used to be) but that's where I learned a lot about ADA. There's an entire culture in the world that we normally "miss" that is very rich and wonderful and we should do our best to accomodate/consider when we build websites. Thanks for the reminder. "Speed to market" tends to dominate my experience in the work world, but I need to start standing on basic necessary practices such as this.

Michael

[flutem3]

I agree as well, but I don't do accessibility very well yet. However, since I have problems with physical accessibility, I am very familiar with the problem. But I have not learned the things I need to know to make the web site useful for those who are blind and deaf. I do use alternate text now which somebody here was kind enough to mention. Beyond that, I don't know what to do. I need to get into that more and always incorporate those features into the web site.

And now for a question. As some of you are aware, I am beating my brains out, well that is a bit dramatic perhaps but you all know the feeling, to be able to get our cantata on the web site. People have been discouraging me. Now, I understand about the file size. It will be humongous...or bigger.

Therefore, I have been told I need to create streaming audio. Does anyone know whether this can be done with the Audacity software? I don't think so from what I have read.

I have downloaded itunes which I was instructed to do. I even placed an mp3 file there...and it played!! Now comes the part I don't understand, but I don't think it is too difficult...but I have not been able to get the pathways clear at all. I know that I need to create a m3u text file. Now, my friends, I am that far. I know how to put the mp3 on our web site. That one operation is not the problem.

I know that I have to do something on notepad for instance which contains the URL of the mp3 file. However, where am I to find this URL to change it to m3u. And what do I put on our web site for people to click for it to stream. I know that is awkward, but I hope you understand what I mean. We are talking a cantata here. I have also discovered that the streaming audio might not work will due to some people's ISPs. Could somebody tell me about that?

I would appreciate any help you can give me. The cantata is a week from today!!

Thanks,

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Carol,

OK, I hear your cry for help.

I'll look into the matter as soon as I get back from running some errands. I'll see if I can't get the answers you need.

Others may respond in the meantime.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Carol,

OK, from previous posts of yours, I know you are using Audacity.

Jack stated that one needs to download and install LAME to export files from Audacity as MP3 files. Since you've said that you've made a MP3 of the cantata, I have to assume that in fact you've downloaded and installed LAME. However, please confirm this.

Now I want to ask three questions:

How long is the cantata (in minutes)?
How big (in MBs) is the resultant MP3 file, which you've described as enormous?
What bitrate did you use to encode the file when you exported it from Audacity as an MP3? (More about this in a minute.)

If the cantata is really, really long, then one option is to break the audio recording of it into two or three shorter files, using Audacity; encode each; and post links to all three shorter MP3s on one webpage. People can then listen to a portion of the cantata now, a portion later, and the final portion at some later time. (People are not necessarily going to want to listen to a two hour long cantata in one sitting, over the internet.)

Now back to the bitrate. Jack states in his earlier post in this thread that he encodes sermons at 128 kilobits and 32 kilobits. He posts the latter on the church website. (I'm not sure that he stated what he used the files compressed at 128 kilobits for.) One possible solution to your problem is to encode at a lower bitrate (and perhaps a much lower bitrate).

In exporting a test file myself using Audacity, I noticed that bitrate value was not one of the options I saw -- no dialog appeared asking what bitrate I wanted to use -- whereas it should be an option. So, to set the bitrate at which to encode an MP3 file, you go somewhere else in Audacity. In the File menu in Audacity, select Preferences. With the Audacity Preferences dialog open, select the File Formats tab (third tab from the left). Enter the desired bitrate in the MP3 Export Setup area at the bottom of this panel, and click OK.

Since the cantata recording is apparently quite long, you would be wise to copy a couple minutes of the recording from the original file and paste this into a new Audacity document. Save that, then run tests on the test file by encoding at different bitrates. (When you name the exported test files, include in the file name the bitrate at which that file was encoded.) This is standard operating procedure: making test encodings of a portion of a file to quickly try out different settings.

Your goal is to balance bitrate (the lower the bitrate, the smaller the MP3 file) with quality (the higher the bitrate, the better the MP3 will sound). Once you have determined the lowest acceptable bitrate (in terms of sound quality), then encode the whole original file again. (Do this overnight, while you sleep.) Your tests likely will be between 32 kilobits and 128 kilobits, inclusive.

Hopefully, you'll end up with one file, or two or three files (portions of the original) with acceptable size and quality.

Also, the directions for LAME talk about a choice of CBR (constant bit rate), ABR (average bitrate), and VBR (variable bitrate). The problem with encoding at one set bitrate is that the best bitrate may vary depending upon the kind of material that exists at any given point in an audio (or video) file. The CBR option forces the entire file to be encoded at a set bitrate. The ABR option is better: The bitrate varies according to the material in the file being encoded, with the set bitrate only being the average (in the end). VBR takes this concept even further, but with no guarantee of the final (average) bitrate.

However, I could find no way to access these choices. Jack? Any ideas?

Now, if that doesn't work, we can start to look at other options, such as encoding to RealAudio instead.

You (or somebody) has mentioned streaming media. Here's how you know a file is truly a streaming file: If, when you are listening to the file, you can click with the mouse on a slider (in the media player) and jump from where you are in the audio file to some later portion, and immediately hear the audio at this new point in the file, then the file is a true streaming file. This requires special streaming server software, which may not be available to you.

It's also possible to listen to an audio file as it is downloading, drag the slider ahead, and have to wait a while before the audio kicks in. That's not a true streaming media file, but is the result of a common service or feature available from most web hosters.

The third option is the ability just to download the file, and listen to it only after the file has completely downloaded.

Now, I'll wait to hear from you regarding the questions I poised above, then we'll see what has to be done next.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[JackWolfgang]

Now back to the bitrate. Jack states in his earlier post in this thread that he encodes sermons at 128 kilobits and 32 kilobits. He posts the latter on the church website. (I'm not sure that he stated what he used the files compressed at 128 kilobits for.) One possible solution to your problem is to encode at a lower bitrate (and perhaps a much lower bitrate).

Right now, the 128 bit files are just taking up space on the hard drive. It's my desire to be able to record them to CD for people to pick up at church, but that's down the road a piece.

In exporting a test file myself using Audacity, I noticed that bitrate value was not one of the options I saw -- no dialog appeared asking what bitrate I wanted to use -- whereas it should be an option. So, to set the bitrate at which to encode an MP3 file, you go somewhere else in Audacity. In the File menu in Audacity, select Preferences. With the Audacity Preferences dialog open, select the File Formats tab (third tab from the left). Enter the desired bitrate in the MP3 Export Setup area at the bottom of this panel, and click OK.

For me (this maybe a Windows vs. Mac thing, but it may be a version difference), the Preferences dialog is accessed from the Edit menu.

Your goal is to balance bitrate (the lower the bitrate, the smaller the MP3 file) with quality (the higher the bitrate, the better the MP3 will sound). Once you have determined the lowest acceptable bitrate (in terms of sound quality), then encode the whole original file again. (Do this overnight, while you sleep.) Your tests likely will be between 32 kilobits and 128 kilobits, inclusive.

I have a musician friend who states he won't listen to music encoded at lower than 128 kilobits. However, David is right, the tradeoff is file size vs. quality.

Also, the directions for LAME talk about a choice of CBR (constant bit rate), ABR (average bitrate), and VBR (variable bitrate). The problem with encoding at one set bitrate is that the best bitrate may vary depending upon the kind of material that exists at any given point in an audio (or video) file. The CBR option forces the entire file to be encoded at a set bitrate. The ABR option is better: The bitrate varies according to the material in the file being encoded, with the set bitrate only being the average (in the end). VBR takes this concept even further, but with no guarantee of the final (average) bitrate.

However, I could find no way to access these choices. Jack? Any ideas?


My copy of Audacity offers no options for CBR/ABR/VBR. However, in digging into the folder where I installed LAME, there is documentation from doing this with LAME from the command line. However, this requires the intermediate step of saving from Audacity into a WAV file format.

Without digging into Audacity's Source Code, it's hard to tell what settings they are using. Audacity's documentation suggests OGG is preferable to MP3, but OGG hasn't gained the wide acceptance that MP3 has.

[flutem3]

How long is the cantata (in minutes)?
How big (in MBs) is the resultant MP3 file, which you've described as enormous?
What bitrate did you use to encode the file when you exported it from Audacity as an MP3? (More about this in a minute.)

Hi, David,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. My computer decided to act up so I cleaned it up and turned it off overnight. It seems to be in a better mood today. Now to your questions.

1. I have not recorded the cantata. It is being performed on December 17.

2. It is 40-45 minutes long and is accompanied by an orchestra.

4. The bitrate is set at 126.

5. The FFT size is 256. I don't know what this measurement is. Oh, it is an algorithm. That explains everything. :-)

I am trying to know what I will need to do before the cantata so that when I have the recording in hand, I will not become frustrated beyond belief. :D In other other words, or in keeping with the Advent season...I am being prepared or getting ready.

For the time being, I just need to learn the mechanics of the thing. If I had someone here teaching me, it would not take long. This has to be the longest possible way to learn something...but perhaps it is the most rewarding as well!!

After learning to do this, I am going to be putting the sermons on the web site weekly....more or less, I hope, as long as my health holds out.


Carol

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Carol,

Then I recommend making arrangements to get a tape recording of the cantata rehearsal ASAP this week. (Your church will probably be having rehearsals frequently this week, if not every night.)

You have two goals:

1) To obtain a recording that is 45 minutes long. For this testing purpose, you do not need the entire cantata beginning to end. You just need a recording that's 45 minutes long (and no longer, else you have to take time to cut it 45 minutes).

2) On this 45 tape recording, you need audio that represents the real cantata. Yes, there's probably a sermon audio tape already available, but that's speech. You need a recording of music+choir.

With this test recording in hand, then you can begin working on testing the best way to encode and upload the real recording, next week when it becomes available to you.

But perhaps you already have a test recording of some sort, since you already have mentioned some MP3 file that's enormous.

If you have a test recording, then begin now to try out different bitrates, as I suggested.

Where exactly do you see FFT size? I didn't see this setting in Audacity.

Jack is correct about the location of the Preferences dialog -- it's under the Edit menu, not File menu.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[flutem3]

Hi, David,

I have a recording of the choir because I knew I needed something that would be comparable to the cantata to practice on. I discovered, for example, that I had recorded it at too high of settings. I now have a tape which was done of a number last Sunday which was not recorded well. The amplitude spikes are flattened out so the sound is slightly distorted. At first I thought I had done that...then I listened to the tape and paid attention. The same slight distortion is on the original.

I found FTT under spectrogram. When I look at software like Audacity or something else, I open up all the boxes to see what is there whether I understand it or not at the time. I knew where bitrate was located.

This part I understand...and understand why. I have messed around some with bitrate, and I think I can lessen it a bit but not a lot.

Let us assume I have it in good shape. And I have it loaded on itunes which I do. However, is there something I need to be using other than itunes? I understand from what I have read that I need to put the URL of the mp3 on a notebook page. And save it was an m3u file?

What is confusing to me is this: If I place the mp3 file on the web site, I can do it two ways:

1. I can create a link in the normal fashion.

2. I can open a dialog box which has a special place to download music, and a music bar pops up on the page as well.

Therefore, I don't understand where the m3u file is supposed to go and what it is supposed to do. One thing I read said that it "points" to the mp3 file. Why would it need to do that if the mp3 file is already there?

Fun, isn't it?

Carol :D

[JackWolfgang]

Let us assume I have it in good shape. And I have it loaded on itunes which I do. However, is there something I need to be using other than itunes? I understand from what I have read that I need to put the URL of the mp3 on a notebook page. And save it was an m3u file?

What is confusing to me is this: If I place the mp3 file on the web site, I can do it two ways:

1. I can create a link in the normal fashion.

2. I can open a dialog box which has a special place to download music, and a music bar pops up on the page as well.

Therefore, I don't understand where the m3u file is supposed to go and what it is supposed to do. One thing I read said that it "points" to the mp3 file. Why would it need to do that if the mp3 file is already there?

Fun, isn't it?

Carol :D

OK, someone explain why I need to upload to iTunes? Is it just another way of casting the net? It's up as an MP3, which can be downloaded to a Mac or a PC, and IIRC, to an iPod.

As for the MP3 file, you can upload it directly to your site using FTP or your sites' tools. You then have one of two ways to link it. Directly, e.g. http://fcctlh.org/sermons/200610Oct29.mp3 or using an M3U file, which as Carol said just points to the MP3 file. Carol, as I understand it, the M3U get's passed to the appropriate media player, then the media player can make the request for the MP3 file. The media player can then start playing the file as it is downloading the rest.

I would experiment with option #2 on a test page before trying it in production.

[flutem3]

As for the MP3 file, you can upload it directly to your site using FTP or your sites' tools. You then have one of two ways to link it. Directly, e.g. http://fcctlh.org/sermons/200610Oct29.mp3 (http://fcctlh.org/sermons/200610Oct29.mp3) or using an M3U file, which as Carol said just points to the MP3 file. Carol, as I understand it, the M3U get's passed to the appropriate media player, then the media player can make the request for the MP3 file. The media player can then start playing the file as it is downloading the rest.

I would experiment with option #2 on a test page before trying it in production.


Hi, Jack,


I just discovered that I will have to do something than load the mp3 file to the website itself. I just now tried to load a larger one, and I received a message that said it was too big...over 70 mb. I don't think it could be over 70 mb because it was just two Christmas songs which lasted about 10 minutes. Maybe I am wrong. There was a message which said to get in touch with support. I think I am going to have to go with option 2, don't you. But where will I say that the mp3 file is residing? What will be its URL?


Carol :confused: again

[JackWolfgang]

I just discovered that I will have to do something than load the mp3 file to the website itself. I just now tried to load a larger one, and I received a message that said it was too big...over 70 mb. I don't think it could be over 70 mb because it was just two Christmas songs which lasted about 10 minutes. Maybe I am wrong. There was a message which said to get in touch with support. I think I am going to have to go with option 2, don't you. But where will I say that the mp3 file is residing? What will be its URL?

70 MB for 10 minutes of audio seems a bit extreme. I usually get about 1 hour and 15 minutes into 80 MB at 128 kilobits.

Did you use Audacity to encode/record the MP3? What bit rate did you encode at?

There's options for more space if you need it, so don't worry about that yet.

[JackWolfgang]

Also, the directions for LAME talk about a choice of CBR (constant bit rate), ABR (average bitrate), and VBR (variable bitrate). The problem with encoding at one set bitrate is that the best bitrate may vary depending upon the kind of material that exists at any given point in an audio (or video) file. The CBR option forces the entire file to be encoded at a set bitrate. The ABR option is better: The bitrate varies according to the material in the file being encoded, with the set bitrate only being the average (in the end). VBR takes this concept even further, but with no guarantee of the final (average) bitrate.

However, I could find no way to access these choices. Jack? Any ideas?


My copy of Audacity offers no options for CBR/ABR/VBR. However, in digging into the folder where I installed LAME, there is documentation from doing this with LAME from the command line. However, this requires the intermediate step of saving from Audacity into a WAV file format.

Without digging into Audacity's Source Code, it's hard to tell what settings they are using. Audacity's documentation suggests OGG is preferable to MP3, but OGG hasn't gained the wide acceptance that MP3 has.

OK, I did not dig into source code, but I did dig into the LAME documentation, and here is what I found.

When I finished editing yesterday's sermon, I exported it at 128 kilobits from Audacity. The resultant file was 24,071 kilobytes.

I then saved my Audacity file as a WAV with the file resulting at 530,731 kilobytes (proof of concept on why compression is required to deliver this content over the web).

When I ran this WAV through LAME's command line, it gave me the following error and an MP3 full of static:
Warning: corrupt or unsupported WAVE format
Assuming raw pcm input file

So I went back to Audacity's Preferences menu, the "File Formats" tab. I changed my "Uncompressed Export Format" from "WAV (Microsoft 32 bit float)" to "WAV (Microsoft 16 bit PCM)". Exporting the file resulted in a 265,366 kilobyte file (which still screams for compression).

OK, now for some LAME tests:

Constant Bit Rate, 128 kilobits per second: 24,071 kilobytes
Average Bit Rate, 128 kilobits per second: 18,476 kilobytes

Therefore, I am assuming that Audacity runs a Constant Bit Rate MP3.

However, this is based merely on file size. The preferable method to compare files would be to run an MD5 hash on both and compare the values.

[flutem3]

70 MB for 10 minutes of audio seems a bit extreme. I usually get about 1 hour and 15 minutes into 80 MB at 128 kilobits.

Did you use Audacity to encode/record the MP3? What bit rate did you encode at?

There's options for more space if you need it, so don't worry about that yet.__________________

Hi, Jack,

Yes, I used Audacity to record the mp3. Bitrate was 128. I just tried to upload it onto itunes, but it didn't load there. I tried to save it on Orbitfile and it didn't save. But it is in my document file as big as life...and it has the itune icon.

Carol

[JackWolfgang]

Yes, I used Audacity to record the mp3. Bitrate was 128. I just tried to upload it onto itunes, but it didn't load there. I tried to save it on Orbitfile and it didn't save. But it is in my document file as big as life...and it has the itune icon.

Would you mind using this service from Axosoft to send it to me at My Screen Name Without Spaces at GMail.com?

Nevermind, the filter is blocking the URL for Transfer Big Files dot com.

[flutem3]

Hi, Jack,

I don't think all those astericks will work in an email address. Tell me what to put in there and I will.

send it to flutem3@netscape.net

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

Nevermind, the filter is blocking the URL for Transfer Big Files dot com.Sorry, Jack.

Spammers were using offsite servers to post (links to) gory Iraq war photos. I had to censor a bunch of such server URLS to shut down the spammers.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey

[JackWolfgang]

It's OK. Well past my bedtime anyways.

[David Gillaspey]

It's OK. Well past my bedtime anyways.However, one of my goals for the new year is to change the situation so that regular posters to this forum can add attachments, images, and server URLs without being censored.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Carol,

You've mentioned an M3U file. That's a playlist file ? that is, a text file that basically contains just the names of songs to be played by a media player one after another. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3U

so I don't know if you really need it or not. If you were to follow my suggestion and break the cantata audio recording into several smaller pieces, then an M3U file would be the place to list the file names of all the files, one after another, which would ensure that visitors hear all of the cantata (by clicking on just one link, to the M3U file).

More information here:

http://hanna.pyxidis.org/tech/m3u.html

or do a Google search for the term.

***

I found this interesting article on using Audacity:

http://www.download.com/Master-your-MP3s-with-Audacity/1200-2170_4-5168846.html

***

Finally, you may be getting (or are currently working with) a stereo (left and right channels) recording of the cantata, but you only need a MONO (one track) audio file for uploading to the website. That would cut the file size in half right there.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[WebMuddler]

I just stumbled onto this site and thread the other day. Very timely as I just started experimenting with this process last week. Thanks for all the great info, particularly on setting the bit rate in Audacity (cut my 20 minute sermon recording from 20mb down to 5).

This is a little off the current conversation but still tied to streaming:

When I upload my file to my website, I have two options. One ends up putting a media player bar on the page (whatever MP is chosen in the users browser settings) and can be played immediately, while the other, which just appears as a link, downloads the file first.

Although I like not having the user have to download first, it appears that there may be some conflicts for instance if they don't have Active X enabled, etc.

Is the safest way to just use the links and have them download or is there a more universal way of streaming or better instructions I can give.

My page is at http://www.firstlutheran-paola.org/audio.html

Thanks again!

[flutem3]

Hi, Mark,

Welcome to the Forum!!! You have run into a dandy group of people.

Regarding the question you asked: I have just started streaming audio. Many of our congregation have dial-up so I know they would not wait around for something the length of a sermon to load...at least most wouldn't.

I know that some people are hesitant about active x and don't know why exactly, but I am streaming. I like it, and I hope our members will too. I am still a novice at it and have much to learn. However, sometime on Monday I hope to have our cantata from Sunday night posted as the first audio I do...unless the master tape is bad in which case I won't. :-)

Glad you joined us.

Carol

[JackWolfgang]

I just stumbled onto this site and thread the other day. Very timely as I just started experimenting with this process last week. Thanks for all the great info, particularly on setting the bit rate in Audacity (cut my 20 minute sermon recording from 20mb down to 5).

This is a little off the current conversation but still tied to streaming:

When I upload my file to my website, I have two options. One ends up putting a media player bar on the page (whatever MP is chosen in the users browser settings) and can be played immediately, while the other, which just appears as a link, downloads the file first.

Although I like not having the user have to download first, it appears that there may be some conflicts for instance if they don't have Active X enabled, etc.

Is the safest way to just use the links and have them download or is there a more universal way of streaming or better instructions I can give.

My page is at http://www.firstlutheran-paola.org/audio.html

Thanks again!


Mark that looks really good, and it looks similar to what a friend of mine did at his church in Jacksonville:

http://ccontheweb.info/audio/

Except he is using a product called Loudblog. Seems to me you could do this in Wordpress with a little coding.

[JackWolfgang]

I then use Audacity, which is an open source audio editing software. I downloaded it from their home page at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/. You will also need the LAME MP3 encoder (available from the Audacity site) if you want to encode MP3 files. I found Audacity pretty easy to use, and I feel like I continue to improve in my knowledge of it.

...

After the 128 kilobit MP3 encodes, I go back and encode the 32 kilobit. This is the file that gets uploaded with the naming scheme described above (e.g. 200611Nov17.MP3). I use Filezilla to upload the file to a directory on our web site, and there is a script that automatically reads the contents and creates a list of links. When we go CMS, the links will be with each entry for each sermon along with notes from the sermon.

I've since found a problem with this setup:

Google Reader (http://google.com/reader) and Bloglines (http://www.bloglines.com/) (Web-based feed aggregators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregator)) both use a Flash-based audio player similar to this one (http://www.1pixelout.net/code/audio-player-wordpress-plugin/) that is a WordPress plugin. Since our church will soon be podcasting (http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=434), this problem is a concern. The plugin causes MP3s to sound like Alvin & the Chipmunks (or a 33 record played at 78) if it is not encoded at one of three sampling frequencies (11.025 kHz, 22.050 kHz, or 44.100 kHz).

The problem is that the LAME MP3 Encoding software used by Audacity defaults to 16 kHz when you encode at 32 bits (because it supposedly results in better results, but I can't elaborate on that). So in order to change this, you have to manually run the LAME Encoding software to encode with the correct sampling frequency. The upside of this is it can read the 128 bit encoded MP3, which was encoded at the proper sampling rate.