Howdy from Oklahoma!

[ibda12u]

Hello, My name is Marrell Sanders, I'm the Youth Pastor/Media Tech/IT Guy/Web Guy for my church. I think I forgot to mention that I also love playing bass guitar for our worship band. I'm a big technology buff, and also run a web hosting company. I love helping folks with web issue's, and if you need some help with PHP, ASP.NET, CSS, MySQL, MSSQL, Javascript, Photoshop, Swish, or well whatever might be out there. Maybe I can help. I think this forums a real blessing to people starting out and just needing some help, as well as those who just want to give back :)

Okay, I think I've exceed my introduction character limit. (Sorry :D )

- Marrell

[flutem3]

Okay, I think I've exceed my introduction character limit. (Sorry :D )

Hi, Marrell,

I don't think you exceeded your introduction character limit. I don't think there are any on here. David, forum administrator, is a wise man about things of that nature. He even established a "Share and Care" thread for members so that when we need prayer or want to say something of a more private nature just to the members, we can do that.

I think you will find that there are lots of people on here who have quite a bit of knowledge. There are a few of us who don't have much but are learning. I don't know what the age range on here is. It would be fun to know. On another forum I go to (UMConnect for the United Methodist Church) the youngest person is 15. I am not certain who the oldest is, but I know of one person who is 75. And I am helping a guy who just picked up his website at his church, and he is 85. And he is a delight too. In his last letter he wrote, "Thank you, dear girl, keep thinking!" I have never been called "dear girl" in my life.

I am 65. I don't know where other ages fall. Most people sound younger than that if for no reason than they know so much more about computers. I had not even watched a person using a computer for more than a couple of minutes because of not being able to look much at the CRT monitors. I have epilepsy, and the tiny jiggle in them was too much. However, an LCD monitor is fine but not for long, long periods.

I taught myself to use the computer starting four years ago in December. Somebody told me not to worry about breaking it and have fun. And that is what I have done.

I have one question for you immediately. I do our church website on limited funds...and that is putting it nicely. What do you think is the cleanest WYSIWYG program out there? I am learning that some are much cleaner than others. I have checked out some, but I have also discovered that I cannot begin to do the stuff that I can do with my Homestead software. In fact, somebody liked our index page and spent mucho hours trying to figure out if she could do the same with FrontPage, and she couldn't. :D

Welcome to the forum. May you find friendship and addition resources for yourself as you are a resource for us.

Carol, Budding Computer Guru, JGIT (Junior Geek in Training)

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Marrell,

Trust me, you are far short of the word limit for posts on this forum, but then I know you're joking.

Welcome to the forum!

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites
(and forum administrator)

[GuruGreg]

Welcome aboard!

With your involvement, it sounds like you hold the same "Jack of All Trades" position in your church that I hold in mine!

[chrisb_ebc]

Hi Marrell,
Welcome. Do you do any custom PHP/mySQL stuff. I am looking for program, more of a backend way of tracking our sunday morning messages through a mySQL database, and outputting it to a html page. I am currently editing a html page manually (which gets to be a pain) at the moment and unfortunately I do not know enough php or mysql to make my own system. If you could help out in anyway and if you would be able to give me a quote of some kind. I don't have a extensive budget, just trying to get some ideas. Or if anyone else can help me out that would be awesome.

[Bombay_Creative]

Do you have an online portfolio of your work?

[David Gillaspey]

I am currently editing a html page manually (which gets to be a pain) at the moment and unfortunately I do not know enough php or mysql to make my own system. Hi Chris,

Is this page

http://www.exeterbiblechurch.org/messages.html

the one you are referring to, that is, the one you are currently updating manually?

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[chrisb_ebc]

Thats correct David. I currently have a XML file for my podcast and have thought about pulling info from there to display into the html file. Unfortunately some of the basic info that I am showing now does not appear in that file. Nor do I quite understand the integration of a external XML file into a html file. The one method I did see only worked for IE I think. With is sorta pointless.

[ibda12u]

Hello Everybody!, whew replies come quickly :)

Lemme see if I can catch up.
Flutem3, I'm not sure if you are looking for a WYSIWYG online application, or something like Dreamweaver or frontpage. If you're talking about an application offline, I hate to say it, but I'm a frontpage man :) I learned in notepad, then moved over to frontpage. As a matter of fact, I can use dreamweaver, but at times I actually may open the file in frontpage, do what I want it to do, then go back to frontpage (generally if I'm working with php/mysql programming). But I can agree with your friend, there are somethings that frontpage probably can't do. I guess it's all about how creative you are, with what tools you've been presented :) but in my Humble Opinion it's Frontpage. :)

David, thanks for the welcome, I'm glad to be here. I wonder what the average character count that people get bored and start skimming is :)

GuruGreg, oh how heavy those hats get, I often want to take some off, and leave them at home lol. We should talk about how not to get burned out :)

chrisb, yes I do, do custom php development, but not sure if there's a better thread or if it's okay to offer sidework help??? (David?)

Bombay, I don't have an updated portfolio, it's generally your personal site that is the last to get updated. :( I'll see if I can put something together soon.

[ibda12u]

Hi Marrell,
Welcome. Do you do any custom PHP/mySQL stuff. I am looking for program, more of a backend way of tracking our sunday morning messages through a mySQL database, and outputting it to a html page. I am currently editing a html page manually (which gets to be a pain) at the moment and unfortunately I do not know enough php or mysql to make my own system. If you could help out in anyway and if you would be able to give me a quote of some kind. I don't have a extensive budget, just trying to get some ideas. Or if anyone else can help me out that would be awesome.

I am actually writing an php/mysql application that will allow someone to upload an mp3 (or whatever other file format they want) of a sermon, then add the title, date, keywords, topic, book, chapter, etc... And it will store all that info a database, Then there will be a page similar to yours which displays the sermons, but also it will be searchable by any of the inputted items. Supposed you can search on topics on easter, or sin, or salvation etc.. I hope to be finished with this project in a couple weeks, hopefully. I'll let you know how it goes.

[flutem3]

I wonder what the average character count that people get bored and start skimming is.

Hi Marrell,

What do you mean by "average character count"? I have not heard that term. I looked it up and still didn't learn a thing. I understand "word count" when discussing papers or newspaper articles. Is this similar at all?

Thanks.

Carol

[chrisb_ebc]

Marrell,
Perhaps we need to start a new thread on this. But I have some other ideas....perhaps you could implement at another time. I would love to see a demo of your app - if possible. Well I will either email or PM pertaining to some of the features I would like to see, or use. Currently I am using a program called Podcast Maker ( www.potionfactory.com ) to upload my mp3 files, so I have no need really to upload files. I would just need the script to know where each file is at. I will catch up with you later tonight...got to finish a couple things here at work..then head to church. Thanks so much for getting back to me.

[David Gillaspey]

David, thanks for the welcome, I'm glad to be here. I wonder what the average character count that people get bored and start skimming is :)I just finished reading the pre-publication copy of a book on web-empowering your church (see

http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=473 )

which provides a guideline for webpages that they be no more than three screenfuls deep. Presumably that also applies to text.

All the guidelines say keep text short on the web, but there are some things, I'm sure, that need detailed description.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[David Gillaspey]

chrisb, yes I do, do custom php development, but not sure if there's a better thread or if it's okay to offer sidework help??? I'm happy for the forum to connect people needing help, with custom programmers willing to help for a fee (or not). But, as you suggest, these arrangements are best handled off line. The usual post (on any forum) would state something like: "If you're interested [in my services], contact me offline" then provide email address. :)

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
Forum adminstrator

[GuruGreg]

GuruGreg, oh how heavy those hats get, I often want to take some off, and leave them at home lol. We should talk about how not to get burned out :)

That we should! I have to admit, I haven't been able to avoid the burned out feeling very much lately.

[chrisb_ebc]

Hey Marrell,
You have a email address I can contact you at? Would like to run some ideas by you. Thanks. Hope I am not being a pest.

[flutem3]

That we should! I have to admit, I haven't been able to avoid the burned out feeling very much lately.

Hi, Greg,

I am in a much different position from many people who do church websites.

1. I live alone.

2. I am unable, until the remodeling is done, to go to church. I haven't been able to go for over 20 years.

3. Despite my membership in the church for my life from age 10, I am an outsider.

4. Because of physical problems, I am unable to work; therefore, I am home a lot; in fact, I am semi-home bound.

5. My time is my own.

6. I still have to make something of value of my existence.

Most of the rest of you, I would guess, are trying to fit the website in with your families, work, study, etc. I don't know that to be true, but I think it is a reasonable guess.

Having said all of that, for better or for worse, I think that we create burn-out ourselves. It is in the same way that we create boredom for ourselves. As with most people, I have felt at one time or another, burned out and bored. But I have come to the conclusion that each time there was something I could have done to change the situation and how I felt. We always have a choice. Greg, have you taken a good look at how you can change the situation?

For me, doing a church website is a joy. If it is not, I should not be doing it. Sometimes we think we just have to continue doing something. It doesn't occur to us to give up on it. Good grief! If we did, who else would do the website...and do it as well as we do at that. :) And we would see ourselves as a failure too.

Well, in my situation, I know the answer. If I do not do it, there is no website. If I fall over dead this minute, I will be gone...and so will the website. It is very high on my priority list. But it hardly turns up on anyone else's list. I banged my head against the wall for quite some time over this. Finally, I asked myself, "Why am I doing this?" I didn't like the first answer I had for myself. It had something to do with "impressing" people with my "vast" skills.

Now, I know my skills are extremely limited but growing. And I am doing the website for the Glory of God, for the joy it brings me, and the church.

Without the website I would not have been reconnected to the church.

Without the website I would not have met the terrific people on here and on UMConnect.

Without the website I would not have met Pastor Alex in the Philippines and his students.

Without the website most of what I do know about the computer I probably would not know.

Without the website I would not have met people world-wide like I have. It is wonderful!

Therefore, do the website for the Glory of God and the joy it brings you. I cannot image doing the website if there were not lots of joy amidst the ongoing frustration. And if it gets to the time that I feel differently, I will give it up...even if nobody else picks it up. Life is too short to feel miserable when doing a church website.

I finally decided to stop for the most part. And I don't worry like I did because I finally discovered that I would worry about the wrong thing almost every time!! I am blessed to have these things happen before I am so ancient I could not enjoy them.

But, I do understand that my position is very different. Some of the principles, however, are the same no matter where we are, what we do, or our age.

I watch people and wonder how they have any time to think or to play. I wonder why children don't play. And I wonder why people seem to me to be scheduling themselves and their kids night and day?

Well, I got off on a tangent again. :D Get some joy going in your life again. The website will follow right along like an obedient puppy!

Carol

PS I realize this is a simplistic answer. Each of us has a different circumstance under which he/she is working.

PSS There was a pastor one day who made some derogatory remarks about the other design I had. Now, I knew I was a beginner. And she was so positive, it made my hair bristle. I looked at her and said, "Well, then you can do it." I am still doing the website. And she was startled at my reply. Some pastors and others, of course, are just a tad of a bully. Nobody is required to take bullying...no matter who it is.

[brucer16]

I am actually writing an php/mysql application that will allow someone to upload an mp3 (or whatever other file format they want) of a sermon, then add the title, date, keywords, topic, book, chapter, etc... And it will store all that info a database, Then there will be a page similar to yours which displays the sermons, but also it will be searchable by any of the inputted items. Supposed you can search on topics on easter, or sin, or salvation etc.. I hope to be finished with this project in a couple weeks, hopefully. I'll let you know how it goes.

I would love to see an application that can do all of this. I have been looking everywhere for such a creature and have not had much luck. My problem is that I need to be able to upload the files via FTP and then bring them into the program for publication. My webhost has a 2mb file limitation through a php script and you can't get many sermons that are less than 2 megs.

Please let me know how this one works out.

Thanks,

Bruce

[GuruGreg]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I wanted to address some of the things Carol said.

You're right that many times we can create our own "burnt out" feeling (and for me, "burnt out" and "bored" are polar opposites). And it's not even the website that has me burnt out, it's having too many other things to do and not getting the chance to work on my web projects:

I work full time, and I'm sure many other do. I'm a database administrator, so I'm in front of the computer for most of the day each day.
I'm the worship leader at my church, so I need to take time to select worship, practice, and coordinate vocalists each week.
I'm on the board of my church as the Treasurer, where the four of us are bearing the brunt of the church responsibilities because our pastor (and a good friend of mine) left in mid-July.
I'm also the Chairman of our Pulpit Committee as we look into candidates for a new pastor and explore the possibilities of merging with other small churches in the area to develop a single, but stronger entity in the community. It was a position that fell to me when nobody else was willing to step up for the church. That has left me with regular phone calls and meetings with district representatives and such.
My wife of 14 months is in grad school and works as a nurse, so many evenings she doesn't get finished until the late evening. She also doesn't drive, so I'm usually spending time many evenings picking her up (not that I mind, it's just one more thing that keeps me busy). That also usually leaves me as the one to cook dinner.
I'm also trying to go to the gym regularly to get back in shape and stay healthy...something I've neglected far too often in the last year.Usually, once I get all that done, I'm either too tired or too unmotivated to sit down in front of the computer again. Ultimately, I'm being pulled away from my passions (web development and music) because of the other things I've been asked to do. In the end, if I didn't put the time and energy into my board/pulpit committee responsibilities that I need to, our entire church would suffer. And I guess I'd rather suffer personally for a little bit for the greater good of the church.

[flutem3]

WOWIE I would not be burned out. I would be dead!! Where are the other people in the church to take on responsibilities? My dad was a person like you. I told him one time when he was just overwhelmed to say, "No." He didn't like that, but the next time somebody asked him to do something for Exchange Club which he practically held together himself, he said, "No. I will not do any more." or something of that nature. He did the same in church too eventually. Do you know what happened? The Exchange Club expired from lack of interest. The church continued because there were other people who would do things. Sometimes it is a matter of saying you will not...in order to discover who will. And if they don't, let it go undone for awhile. Either someone will step up or they won't.

My dad seemed to think that he was the only person who could do anything in the church. Well, he could do a lot, and he did. But there are many other people. A new generation of leaders will never develop if the same people do stuff for an eternity. My grandfather was a minister as well, and he was very good at getting lots of people involved instead of having such a heavy load land all on one person. The church includes all of us...not just a few people who bear all the burden for running the church. I know I am not saying a thing you don't know. But saying, no, is an option.

I didn't used to say, no, either. I got so bogged down my life had very little meaning to it. I was overwhelmed with stuff. There wasn't time for any of the really important things in my life...like Bible study, prayer, and thinking and relationships. I used to think I was the only person in town who could give a decent program on epilepsy...and that turned out to be true. However, I was spending so much time being "helpful" that I threw myself into a period of seizures. My body could not handle the stress I had created. At the time I was also the president of the Epilepsy Foundation of Indiana and the committee which was creating the Protection and Advocacy Laws for the State of Indiana. And I drove back and forth to Indianapolis so I was going broke as well...all while being helpful. It seems absolutely absurd in hindsight. We did some good things, but I hate to think what the real expenses were within families, etc. for what we had a passion for doing.

One person is not meant to do everything. You said that you thought that being burned out and bored were opposite of each other. I didn't mean to indicate that they are the same or even similar. What I said is that both of them are choices we make.

In fact, I think one which bothers me a lot to hear is a 14 year old say he/she is bored. It is okay for a few minutes and won't hurt anyone, but it nonetheless is a choice. Burned out may not seem like a choice to you, but to me it is a choice. I am not in any way indicating that I think it is easy to scale back what you are doing. But I think sooner or later you will find that you cannot withstand that much "stuff" to do. My dad did stuff too...but his kids, my brother and I, wished he would have been at home.

I just talked to my brother about this a couple of minutes ago. He said that him memory is that Dad was always gone "helping people". And he did. He was one of God's good people, but his priorities were a bit skewed in our eyes. But the town made him a Distinguished Citizen one year. And the Boy Scouts gave him the life-time Silver Beaver Award...twice. He did enough work in the Boy Scouts for two lifetimes...and that is the truth.

I am not in the least suggesting that you stop doing things. But if I were in your shoes, which admittedly and thankfully, I am not, I would certainly take a good look at the list you wrote. I don't know how anyone, even my dad, could do so many things, and do them well, without someone or something paying the price for it. I admired your willingness, but if you aren't careful, you will run yourself right into the ground.

I have been there, and I don't recommend it at all. It is only through the grace of God keeping me alive that I am here to irritate you this way. There have been three times in my life that I am definitely aware of when medically I should have died. But here I am...maybe much to your dismay. :) Please understand that I realize you don't like what I am saying.

And please read this letter as written...out of concern for you.


Carol

[GuruGreg]

Carol,

Unfortunately, I'm 26 and am that new generation of leadership. I'm the second-youngest registered member of our church (my wife being the youngest).

I do try to delegate as much as I can, but it still feel like everything ends up coming through me.

I'm really hoping to get through this transition period (until we find a new pastor or merge with another church), and then take a big step back. I'd love to get back to being a "student" and learning more about my faith and God's word.

But until then, I feel torn because I feel I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but I just don't like it all that much. However, if I turned away from everything I didn't like, I probably wouldn't get anything done.

Hope that makes sense. I feel like stuff just fell out of my brain and onto the keyboard...;)

[flutem3]

Hi, Greg,

I must say that you are in an unenviable position. You are just a young thing. :) That is a lot of responsibility for anyone to bear. I do not delegate work too well. I guess I should say that when I was in the position to delegate, I didn't do it well. The person I have watched through the years was Dad. He knew that other people could not do things as well as he did. And guess what? He was right!!!

How big is your church? Where did your pastor go to? I can understand your taking responsibility whether you want it or not. It sounds as if you didn't, the church would cease to exist. When something you love ceases to exist like our epilepsy organization, it feels dreadful. And I felt like a failure for a time. Somebody then reminded me of what had been accomplished, which was true, and I got out of my funk about it.

You can dump on your keyboard any time. That is one thing they are for...not just only pleasantries, instructions, debate, etc. The keyboard is for everything a person thinks and talks about...in my not so humble opinion.

Do you have any idea when the problems in your church will be alleviated? I don't know how long you have been in the situation you are in, but I don't know how long your system can withstand that kind of pressure and stress...at least that is what I would feel. And I would be afraid that "my" church would cease to exist. That would make me try all the harder to keep it going. However, as I learned, no one person can keep any kind of organization together if others don't want to participate.

It takes a village.

Carol

[GuruGreg]

He knew that other people could not do things as well as he did. And guess what? He was right!!!
That's part of my problem...and maybe that other people realize it too!

Our church was running about 40 regulars, but that's dropped down closer to 30 over the last few months. Our pastor left for a more family-oriented position out west in Washington, which was in the best interest of his family.

The current processes are going pretty slow, so I may be stuck for a little while. It's been two months already. When I'm not dealing with it, I try pretty hard to not even think about it.

Thanks for being willing to let me vent/dump/etc. Just the other day I felt better just being able to talk about it.

BTW, I'm going to start a new thread about this in the Share and Care forum so we don't hijack this thread any more.

Here it is: http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=481

[JackWolfgang]

Unfortunately, I'm 26 and am that new generation of leadership. I'm the second-youngest registered member of our church (my wife being the youngest).

Greg, how large is your church? Oops! I missed that answer! Greg, if I may make a suggestion, there ought to be people who can lighten your load in the church with 40 people. I have to agree with Carol that you seem headed to burn out. I saw a guy leave our church (the current one I am at) because he was burning out (he was the treasurer, a bible study teacher, an elder, and a guitar player in the praise band). When he tried to lighten his load in the church, he couldn't. He left. He's missed dearly, but we burnt him out.

(/me wonders if this should be a split thread)

Marrel, welcome aboard!

[ibda12u]

Wow, we had a slurry of events the past month at my church, and with my regular job. This is the first time I've been able to get back in 4weeks. I see this thread has grown! :)

Anyways, Thanks for the welcome everyone :)