Strong Opinions - Did I Mess Up?

[GuruGreg]

Hey guys, could you take a look at something?

http://www.ifjesushadawebsite.net/index.cfm/module/story/story/68

I was sharing my opinions on a website I came across (and they ended up not being very good). I then had someone from the site came and posted a comment (just when you think no one is reading...ya know?).

I just wanted to ask, did I make a mistake in doing this? Even if I thought the site was a ripoff, was it right to tell everyone that?

I guess I just feel guilty...:rolleyes:

[chrisb_ebc]

looks to me that you responded correctly. The way you understood the pricing - I would have gathered that as well. I would agree with you as well about said christian companies - needing to really providing a ministry - rather then trying to make a buck.

[flutem3]

I think you took a proper, ethical stance. The Smut website obviously had ripped the other one off...or maybe the reverse. In any case, it is terrible to do in my opinion. Three cheers for you that you took a stance. There is no reason to feel guilty for an honest opinion whether you are right or wrong. You gave it in good faith. Actually, I am not sure why you would feel guilty. You stated your opinion.

Carol

[GuruGreg]

Thanks guys...

Chrisb_ebc, I'm glad you saw my "bigger picture" point that true Christian companies should not just be about the bottom line. I'm not sure the ChurchShoppers rep saw it as anything more than a criticism of them.

Carol, I guess I just thought to myself "oh crap!" because I never expected someone from the company to respond. It tends to be a lot easier to bash a corporate entity than it is the individuals involved in it.

But you're right...I did just state my opinions. Maybe they'll even take my criticisms and reevaluate their business model. ;)

[chrisb_ebc]

And for instance - this website. I purchased the membership for the members section of this website. I made some posts on the forum and David emailed me about it and said that I made enough posts to warrant a refund of my money, a gift card or give the refund to someone who isn't a member. I told him to keep the money (b/c its a ministry and I know hosting costs, his time and work put into it, etc - he deserved it.) and apply it to another person's membership which I gave him contact info for. If all 'christian' companies would learn from this. I can think of a specific with christian book stores. I can go in there and buy the latest christian cd, or go to walmart and buy it for about $8 cheaper. We are / they are there to provide a ministry, to encourage believers in there faith. Of course there is nothing wrong with making profit...but when I can get it online or at another store alot cheaper, it makes me wonder how much there actually making off that CD, book, web hosting/design, church web listings, christian t-shirts, etc....whatever it may be.

-Chris

[flutem3]

I can tell you. They are making tons of cash. We are supposed to be glad to pay the additional costs because we are Christians.

In my opinion, some of the bookstores which claim to be "Christian" bookstores but run up the prices prevent some of us who cannot afford that kind of money from buying books. Besides, who in their right mind would pay more for a book when the same book is available for half or two-thirds the price some place else. I know they tell us about "good works" they are doing with the additional funds. But I would like to choose where I want my money to go...like to my local church.

You probably all know of the bookstore that gives your church 5% of the highly inflated cost of the book when you have a link to them and your website acts as another outlet for them. I don't know about you, but I think that is highway robbery...in the name of religion. And it is my own denomination which is doing it! I have yet to hear any kind of reasonable justification for what they do.

If anyone has one, I would really like to hear it. I have been wrong before...and I will be wrong again.

Carol

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Greg,

I think you were completely right none of what the rep said could I easily find on his site.

Now time for me to come to the defense of christian business. The reason places like Wal mart can have Cd's 50% cheaper is because they aren't christian. They use their size to make wholesalers cut them great deals and they treat their employees poorly.

It is the job of christians to support each other in love. If that means going to my local christian bookstore costs 20% more or using the services of a congregation member whose prices are a little above average, then so be it. To strengthen the kingdom we must support its people.

[chrisb_ebc]

Good point Kyle.

As I posted the first time I thought about that. Like Wal-Mart has such a larger stock, to get cheaper prices. I know I still can go online and order from a "christian" company and still do much better then going to a "christian" book store in the area here. In fact I think that is why the one near me closed - to be honest with you.

I also find that in some instances...christians expect discounts. I work for a photography studio (christian owned) and there are times that when other christians come in and know that we are christians they think were going to give them a break cause there a christian too. I think this happens alot with ministries in the church. I know there was a article over at ChurchMarketingSucks.com and that talked about Christians expecting discount on software (for example Adobe). There is a ethical line that christians should not cross..and this is one of them. What makes us any different than a non-believer when it comes to this. Now in the case of what Greg posted I agree that the service seems a bit over priced.

And in our dealings with christians through the studio...its sad to say we have more difficult dealing with them then we do non-believers.

[flutem3]

Chris wrote:

"And in our dealings with christians through the studio...its sad to say we have more difficult dealing with them then we do non-believers."

Chris, et. al.,

There is a company here which designs and hosts websites for all kinds of places. But they will not do churches. They have tried in the past and:

1. They couldn't get information when it was needed.

2. They, in general, had difficulty getting the churches to pay the amount due; and the churches usually wanted a break in price because they were churches.

This guy is one of the nicest people in the world. And if he has that kind of problem here in a small town, I can just imagine the problem in larger cities.

I do not understand why we think we deserve any more of a break than any other business does. But it happens over and over in other situations as well...even Wal-Mart. We do not want to "give unto Caesar." We want Caesar to give us a break because we are non-profit organizations and are Christians. We do not deserve that kind of cost break any more than anyone else. And it is not fair to others.

In fact, it is not a very Christian thing to request or expect. Personal Opinion.

Carol

[Faithhb_lutheran]

You guys are absolutely right.

We as christians are called to give a fair share. We should look for how to support other christians in their business regardless of price. The problem that churches have is nobody practices proper stewardship so the ministries are left with budgets that just can't get the ministry work done without haggling over prices. Fix the underlying problem of personal greed in the body of christ and all the rest goes away.

[Stephani Olson]

Hello again, Greg...I re-read my post back to you, and definitely was responding out of criticism...I wanted to let you all know that we are changing our site to allow churches to build their profiles for free and if they desire to post images, audio or video, it will cost them $30 a year...(covers site maintenance and marketing) We have had to reevaluate our business approach...As another poster commented, it is HARD to get churches to move...
I come from a large church with a big marketing budget...to me, 130 bucks for a year's worth of web exposure and print marketing seemed like a great deal! Our test research indicated that as well...Unfortunately when it comes down to it, churches are either reluctant to pay and even more so, not willing to take the time to give the information for a profile...
Bottom line is...it is our heart to help searchers find a home church. We're not getting rich here...The Holy Spirit really impressed on me recently that this site is to help spread the gospel and every penny we have put into it is seed sown...I know He will bless us financially in other arenas! We are planning on launching a business to business site that will help churches as well as provide revenue for us....
I apologize for strong words...no condemnation here! I really believe the Word principle of "Iron sharpening Iron." Your opinions do matter and I believe will help me shape a tool that can help people find a home church where their gifts can be developed and used for God's glory....
Churchshoppers.com
P.S. Sign your churches up! We need your help...no $$$ needed and no strings attached...We just need help giving our searchers what their looking for and that's information...

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Stephanie,

Thanks for posting your follow-up. (And for having the courage to do so.)

I was surprised by the amount of dollars your company originally wanted to charge for a church profile. I say this for two reasons. One, I grew up in small churches of 50 members or so. As you know, the majority of churches in the United States are under 75 members in size. I know from practical experience that such churches are, shall we say, budget-challenged. Two, from my own experience selling memberships to Great Church Websites (which hosts and administers this forum), people are reluctant to spend money on things that they don't highly value.

Well, I never did find time to post to this thread before, which perhaps is a good thing now that you've posted. I see from your post that your organization is adopting what perhaps is the better business model for the internet: offer free content/services, and charge for premium content/services.

That's the model I use. All the content on my site is free except access to my database of well-designed church pages, which requires a small membership fee. That's the "premium" content. In two or three months, I plan to launch www.discovergraphicdesign.com, an e-learning site to teach the basics of graphic design (for church webmasters, or anyone in a church, or anyone for that matter). No one would pay a penny for lessons, I'm sure, because of all the free tutorials and articles about graphic design to be found on the internet already. So the lessons will be free. (I'm basically taking what I learn in art school and making it available on the web.) The premium content that I will charge for will be the Flash-based illustrations for each design concept. Membership in Great Church Websites will give access to this premium content, too.

Anyway, I pray that God will bless what your organization is attempting to do. I believe your current business model is a more practical approach to the internet economy (and the realities of church budgets) and will succeed in time.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites
(and forum administrator)