Using 'forums' on a church site

[rePete]

hello all again,

During my redesign I'm seriously considering providing a bulletin board (phpbb (http://www.phpbb.com/) because it's free and easily installed on my host (http://dreamhost.com/)).

My first inclination is to have all forums hidden until the user is logged in, to address privacy issues. Second, I think the posts should be moderated, not posted until approved.

Obviously I'm thinking of prayer requests, members who are hospitalized, general theological discussions, maybe a youth area, messages from the pastoral staff regarding upcoming building projects etc.

Any ideas on this topic? Do it, don't do it? Add this or don't add that?

Feel free to fire away. I enjoy having this type of conversation and value all opinions here. I'm pretty much on my own as far as what does and doesn't go on the site.

Thanks,
Pete

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Pete,

Your idea to get community on your site sounds great but think about these things first.
1.) Will your congregation respond? (extremely important if you are going to make it private.)
2.) What type of community activities do you want to do? What technologies best suit those goals? Remember that there are a variety of community software. A lot of your options depend on what type of site you have, straight code vs. CMS. I'll use what you provided as examples;
a.) Prayer board- Including a prayer section in a forum works fine but a separate forum on the same system, (phpbb lets you do this) that is public and can be used by more people could grow more interest. The idea of moderating is a must but that does mean that you have to be on top of things. Nothing will kill a prayer board quicker then the moderator delaying prayers till they become obsolete (which some do rather quickly). If you have a prayer coordinator for your church get them on board and they will be able to help you grow usage. One last idea, we have a dual system right now. a member prayer board and a email submission to request private prayers from the prayer teams. We are going to be adding a public section so people can post wherever they feel comfortable.
b.)Theological questions- Now that's serious! My first question would be have you talked about this with your pastor? Who are the administrators and answer people going to be? You may want to look into whether or not your denomination has something like this. (I will post some links to ones I have found later.) If your denominational body doesn't have something like this it would be a great idea but I would think of networking with at least the churches in your local body and get a team of some kind together for it.
c.) Youth News- Couldn't a blog by the youth director with the kids able to have rss forward it directly into their email, or a myspace ( could be any community portal) group led by the youth leader work better. If you go the blog route try to find a youth or two with a gift for writing and ask them to guest post ( this way they don't feel pressured, and if they really like it give them more space) once a month or so.
d.) Notification of a building project- again couldn't a blog format set up as a journal of the construction be more productive?

These are just a few ideas. I will post more later (have to get some sleep).

just wondering pete
what type of site do you have?(hand code or CMS (what kind?))
What size of web team do you have?
What size of pastoral staff do you have?

Hope some of this helps pete

[Faithhb_lutheran]

David,

should this thread go under the conversation starter "what have you learned from administering a forum on your site?"?

[David Gillaspey]

should this thread go under the conversation starter "what have you learned from administering a forum on your site?"?Hi Kyle,

Yes, seems like a good idea. Haven't gotten many responses to this conversation starter til now, have I?

Actually, I need to share (about) my own experience administering this forum, under this topic. I'll try to do that this weekend.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

[rePete]

Kyle,

My site will be hand coded not cms.

My reasons for making the forum a secure area are more out of wanting to communicate candidly with the membership more than exclusion of the public, if that makes sense. Things like budgetary figures, building fund activity and even property acquisition shouldn't be public IMHO.

I didn't mean to imply that this would be the only 'community' area used either, sorry if I did. I believe that blogs can and do have a place. One church I know of has a Pastors blog for reading through the bible in a year. You get the Pastor's insight for each days reading as he posts.

I think we will get buy in from the congregation, we will be doing extensive testing before the site goes live. I like your idea of public and private prayer requests.

Our pastoral staff consists of a Senior Pastor, Administrative Assistant Pastor, Youth, Music and Childrens associates. Also have two church secretaries and a couple of office interns.

I am the webteam!? With some of the secretaries as contributors.

Maybe a combination of public and private spaces would be best. Moderation can be done by the secretaries during office hours and me after hours.

Thanks for your comments.

David,
Sorry I missed the conversation starter.

Pete

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Pete,

sounds like your thinking through this well. That's great to hear. You couldn't record the amount of conversations some of us have with churches and businesses for that matter on how to solve issues that should of been taken care of during planning. I have been thinking of setting up a tutorial or a blog about how to seriously do strategic planning for technology in churches. anybody have any ideas about that one?

Also pete what I was trying to convey was that wether you make them public or not, The ease of usage vs. possible functionality of each technology has to be taken into account. Take your building project for example- it is basically a journal of the progress and thus IMHO should use a tech that is just that. Anyway hope the redesign goes well. Please give us some input on what kind of results you have.

[GuruGreg]

Pete,

I would consider this a rule of thumb, but it's probably not a good idea to put any information that should not be available publicly on the internet. Sure, it can be done, but if you want to be secure it will take a lot of access monitoring and user management (to verify identities) work on your part, especially if you want to put them in your forums. That may be more trouble then it is worth.

I know most of us like to take full advantage of the internet, but there are some things that may be best kept to board or all-church meetings.

Just my opinion on things...

-Greg

[flutem3]

Pete,

I would consider this a rule of thumb, but it's probably not a good idea to put any information that should not be available publicly on the internet. Sure, it can be done, but if you want to be secure it will take a lot of access monitoring and user management (to verify identities) work on your part, especially if you want to put them in your forums. That may be more trouble then it is worth.

I know most of us like to take full advantage of the internet, but there are some things that may be best kept to board or all-church meetings.

Just my opinion on things...

-Greg

Hi, all,

I have been following the discussions, but I didn't understand some of them. However, this issue is near and dear to my heart. We have discussed it considerably on UMConnect as well.

My personal opinion is that not all things that happen in a church belong on a website any more than you would want everything about you on a website. I think the church itself deserves some kind of "privacy" in a different but similar way to an individual. A church does [not ? admin.] need to "run naked" through the www just to be certain that everyone understands it.

And I don't care whether we password protect pages or how we protect them, someone else can figure a way to get in if he/she wants to. I don't know why he/she would want to. But there are some very unscrupulous people running about. They will go everywhere to get email addresses, and they will search for other kinds of information with which to damage an organization and individuals within an organization.

The Word of God needs to be spread to the ends of the earth. Church policies don't need to be. The church needs to be shown in all its glory, but it needs to have some clothes on for modesty and privacy as well.

My opinion only!! :D

Carol

I AM SO EMBARRASSED. YES, I MEANT THAT THE CHURCH NEED NOT (thanks, David) RUN NAKED THROUGH THE WEB. I wish I could hide my head in the sand. Carol

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Pete,

I would consider this a rule of thumb, but it's probably not a good idea to put any information that should not be available publicly on the internet. Sure, it can be done, but if you want to be secure it will take a lot of access monitoring and user management (to verify identities) work on your part, especially if you want to put them in your forums. That may be more trouble then it is worth.

I know most of us like to take full advantage of the internet, but there are some things that may be best kept to board or all-church meetings.

Just my opinion on things...

-Greg

Hi, all,

I have been following the discussions, but I didn't understand some of them. However, this issue is near and dear to my heart. We have discussed it considerably on UMConnect as well.

My personal opinion is that not all things that happen in a church belong on a website any more than you would want everything about you on a website. I think the church itself deserves some kind of "privacy" in a different but similar way to an individual. A church does need to "run naked" through the www just to be certain that everyone understands it.

And I don't care whether we password protect pages or how we protect them, someone else can figure a way to get in if he/she wants to. I don't know why he/she would want to. But there are some very unscrupulous people running about. They will go everywhere to get email addresses, and they will search for other kinds of information with which to damage an organization and individuals within an organization.

The Word of God needs to be spread to the ends of the earth. Church policies don't need to be. The church needs to be shown in all its glory, but it needs to have some clothes on for modesty and privacy as well.

My opinion only!!

Carol


Well that's an interesting problem.

Greg what do you mean by publicly available? Did you mean financials? what else would you consider non public information? I don't really get the point of boards? wouldn't any person at an event at your church (say AA) have access to that info. I for one have a big problem with the opposite opinion; that is to say people who think that we should put very little up on the web. If this is coming from experience could you elaborate, I am trying to build a web ministry manual for my local church body and this kind of info would be greatly appreciated.

Carol,

Since when do church people get to run naked (sign me up! JK:D) I would have to argue with you on that point (begin rant) the church deserves only as much privacy as the world gives us, since we are called to minister to them and not to be a stumbling block to the gentiles. The Lord God protects his church and that includes websites. church websites are (IMHO) meant to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the ministry of the church. They are part of the GC just as the printing press and TV are. We must not be afraid of what might happen but like David we must have trust in the Lord and HE shall go before us. . About the church policies, they are part of the GC they are what lets the people of God interact most effectively with the world and good ones should be shared among the people of God. (end rant). Let those that mean to do us harm go ahead, turn the other cheek.


These are just my opinions but I do believe that I have a strong argument on this one.

[flutem3]

Kyle wrote:

"They are part of the GC just as the printing press and TV are. We must not be afraid of what might happen but like David we must have trust in the Lord and HE shall go before us. . About the church policies, they are part of the GC they are what lets the people of God interact most effectively with the world and good ones should be shared among the people of God. (end rant). Let those that mean to do us harm go ahead, turn the other cheek."

Hi, Kyle,

We could go around on this question forever. I agree with some of what you say; however, we are also stewards of our churches which includes the website. I would prefer to avoid harm when possible. If it is not, then I will turn the other cheek. That reminds me of a young man, 13, who ran right in front of my car. He saw the car, and he continued. I just barely missed him...and I do mean barely. I asked him what he was doing. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "Well, you only live once." Needless to say that young man and I had a long talk.

I must say that I also approach this question from a very personal point of view. I do have all kinds of medical problems. That makes indication of them and being away, being ill, needing prayer, etc. a risky thing to do to me...and I do mean to me because I have had no say in the matter. When I am really ill, I am at my most vulnerable. I don't need lots of people to know that. And at those times I don't have the wherewithal to turn the other cheek. I will just plain get run over in one way or another.

I agree that God watches over us, our churches, and the websites. But God also helps those who help themselves. I would rather err on the side of caution. It will not hurt anyone...and just might keep someone from being hurt in our efforts to "do good."

If we manage to spread the Good News in the best way each of us can and glorify God in doing so, the rest will fall in place. OPINION :D

Carol

PS Have you ever actually been in a physical situation in which you got slapped and did turn the other cheek...and got whacked again? I have. And I got whacked a third time as well. And, no, I did not lift a hand. It was extremely difficult to do. But I would have been wrong to hit the other person under the circumstances which I am not at liberty to reveal.
And that is the kind of example (not at liberty to reveal) which should not be on our church websites. Some things, even in a church, are private.

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Carol,

I understand what you are trying to say. Yes we have to be deliberate (as it says "lead us not into temptation") about every action we take as christians to put forward the best ministry possible, what I was trying to get at was the people who want to limit the scope of a web ministry for no reason at all. When you have a policy to post information in a certain way then go for it what I hate to see is the "NO we can't put that on the web" or "I don't want people to know that" with no reasoning or explanation. I have never thought about the idea of peoples vulnerability when information such as prayers of safe travel are posted on church bulletins or on the web. Must add that to my policy manual. Thanks Carol.

[flutem3]

Hi, Kyle,

You are welcome!! I understand what you mean as well. It does get perplexing at times, doesn't it? :confused: I want to read your manual when you finish it. Maybe it will be the epitome of manuals for church websites, and you will become rich! :D

Carol

[rePete]

Hello again to all,

Sorry I've missed all this good discussion but work has kept me busy.

I tend to find myself more on Kyle's side of things. The nice thing about using a forum is that it's the decision of the poster to make the prayer request or issue public. My idea for the password protection was to improve communication BETWEEN congregants as well as from leadership.

Maybe I'm naive in thinking that there is no one out there that has the inclination, time and talent to hack into a secure forum to find out information about our church. Enlighten me on this please.

Regarding financials: we would not post anything more than what is in our Sunday bulletin.

On public vs private: Our church publishes bulletins and prayer lists, with names, weekly. The are available to anyone who walks in the door. I assume this is Gregs definition of public. My intent is to offer this information on the church forum in a secured area. Again I think this is information the local body should have access to but I don't think it needs to be viewable to the world.

Thanks to all for really helping me see all sides.

Pete

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Pete
glad we could all be of assistance, (even if I never knew I was helping:))

Hi, Kyle,

You are welcome!! I understand what you mean as well. It does get perplexing at times, doesn't it? :confused: I want to read your manual when you finish it. Maybe it will be the epitome of manuals for church websites, and you will become rich! :D

Carol

Now that'll be the day. Actually the project is still in the storming stage. I have been bouncing around different ideas of how to apply my technology, marketing, and theology skills in unison and delivering it to people. right now I have got it narrowed down to two choices.
1.) Make traditional Manual- Start blog, focus on different sections of the manual and come back to things as my knowledge (or the ideas themselves) change or expand.
2.) Put manual up on a WIKI- put up everything I have and let people make their own additions sooner or later export the whole thing to pdf so people can download a copy.

What does everybody think?

[flutem3]

Hi, Kyle,

Do you have a couple of specific goals which you want to accomplish, or is this an open-ended project which will take form as information developes?

What do you want the end product to be:

1. A manual of church policies for a website

2. Strategy for developing a church website

3. All the other possibilities

Who is the target audience for your end product:

1. Webmasters

2. Clergy

3. Laity

4. Committees

5. Combinations

Why are you engaging in the project? That perhaps is the most important question to answer in determining the end product and the form it takes. Is this a static product or a dynamic product?

Just some thoughts. :D

Carol

PS I thought you all would like to know that when I opened the newspaper today and turned to the religious page, I discovered that the pastor I have listed as preaching as well as the sermon title for tomorrow are wrong on our website. :mad: That drives me nuts. I have no idea why nobody tells me these things. Any ideas?

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Carol,

The audiences the answer is yes and no. The information is supposed to be used by strategic planning teams and that involves Clergy and laity in whatever form of team they are functioning. different sections will be more or less useful to certain ministry leaders.

As far as the actual content. Right now I think I have too(ooooo) broad of a focus. To start of I think the first publishing will have to do with just how to integrate web-based technologies into strategic ministry planning. The idea would be to provide a top to bottom guide with theoretical and practical insights on how to both setup the organization to integrate technologies and how to follow the "S curve" of technological innovation to use technologies in the most effective and efficient way to fulfill the Mission of the Church. So that is what I have so far. What do you think?


RE: PS,
The question of how to get your people to site is one thing but if they aren't paying attention when they get there that's a whole different horse altogether. I would say one way to head that off at the pass, so to speak, is to get a volunteer editor for the website. Have them CC'd on all info that is sent to you and have them check your work.


One thing that I forgot to add. This project is not to copy others work but to consolidate it and summerize it. thus I will be contacting many people (including you David) to ask to link my documents to the work that they have already done for the kingdom.

[flutem3]

Kyle wrote:

"I would say one way to head that off at the pass, so to speak, is to get a volunteer editor for the website. Have them CC'd on all info that is sent to you and have them check your work."

Hi, Kyle,

That is a good suggestion, but I am the only volunteer who exists. Nobody else has a thing to do with the website. If I don't do it, keep it up, etc., it dies. We are really that far behind in our thinking. Four years ago, I was too. Therefore, I really shouldn't get too bent out of shape about anyone else. I just keep plugging along...but it is tough sometimes. I suppose in a perfect world I wouldn't need feedback or support, but the world isn't perfect nor am I. I am just one soul here who is trying to learn to do an adequate church website.

Carol

PS There is one person who will proof read stuff for me when I have long texts...when she is here, but she is gone about half the time because her family has had a terrible series of misfortunes over a considerable period of time.

Re: pastors and sermons The senior pastor has his sermons, titles, Scriptures, etc. planned out until after summer. I know when he is preaching, but his name is on every Sunday. There is nothing that gives me any indication at all which the associate, Rebecca, will preach. And it is not the same Sunday each month so I am unable to put it on that type of schedule. I have talked to her about it before, but it doesn't seem to do much good. She just doesn't remember, I guess.

[Faithhb_lutheran]

keep plugging along is all we can do and I hear you about the pastor. Clergy are some of the hardest people to get onboard with technology. Good luck with that.

[srmcatee]

I also side with Kyle. The Great Commission does not ask us to withhold information. On the otherhand, you should not post "everything" on your website.

Your site should concentrate on faith and ministry. The church's budget is a tool for effective ministry. But having it on the website will serve no purpose for the ministry.

Also, I believe you have to monitor posts. Sometimes people post out of fear or mis-information. You have to be alert to catch these items. But posting is also a form of communication and caring. Especially if you have a prayer circle for members. Some might post, "We all need to pray for Billy. He was just diagnosed with aids". That is something you would probably want to edit slighty due to privacy matters for Billy, or at least contact Billy. But everyone in the church should probably know he needs your prayers.

It also depends on your church. Some people are outspoken. Other's don't even bother to use the website!!!!

My two cents and spare change :)

[flutem3]

Hi, Guys,

I am not on anyone's side. I just know what I do. Everything which goes on our website goes through me. If there is something offensive, I wouldn't put it on the site although that has not happened. I just wish people would take advantage of what is there.

David, the forum administrator, sees everything that goes up on this forum and is at liberty to keep it from being posted and to black list a person as well. I think that is necessary although I wish it weren't. However, as of now, I haven't had people register for anything.

Eventually, I hope to get a forum going...in a couple of years probably, or less...and the kind I have in mind requires registration to post but not to read...unless there is a members only area as there is on here.

Carol

[David Gillaspey]

David, the forum administrator, sees everything that goes up on this forum and is at liberty to keep it from being posted and to black list a person as well. As forum administrator, I receive all posts immediately as an email. This is why I occasionally state in my posts that I keep a watchful eye on the forum, and how in fact I can do so. (Large forums would have forum moderators handling this task.) However, "at liberty to keep it from being posted" is not quite accurate. I have not chosen to require that posts be approved (known as "moderation") by me or a moderator before they appear, although my forum software has this option.

There certainly is some risk in this policy, but I have reduced the risk by 1) requiring membership before a person can post, to begin with; 2) "censoring" certain potentially offensive words, which results in their being replaced by asterisks in a post; and 3) turning off members' ability to attach images and link to images saved on other servers. See more about these anti-spam measures here (http://www.greatchurchwebsites.org/forums/showthread.php?t=368).

In general, however, the members of this forum are well-behaved. I've only experienced an occasional anti-(Iraq)-war protest spammer, though why they bother with a small forum like this one is beyond me.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
Forum administrator