What is your job description?

[firefly99324]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the site and I wanted to ask everyone what your job description is as the church webmaster. I've been the paid webmaster at our church for almost 3 years and I'm having a lot of issues with obtaining content for the site. When I do get the content I get emails telling me how they would like that content displayed and if I feel i need to change it I should contact them first for their approval. The way I see it, as webmaster I should be the one to decide how the content fits best on the site and others are responsible for getting that content to me. I'm a one person team and even though I get paid, I've been close to quitting many times. So, a clear job description would really help me I think. What do you all say yours is?

Thanks,
Valerie

[flutem3]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the site and I wanted to ask everyone what your job description is as the church webmaster. I've been the paid webmaster at our church for almost 3 years and I'm having a lot of issues with obtaining content for the site. When I do get the content I get emails telling me how they would like that content displayed and if I feel i need to change it I should contact them first for their approval. The way I see it, as webmaster I should be the one to decide how the content fits best on the site and others are responsible for getting that content to me. I'm a one person team and even though I get paid, I've been close to quitting many times. So, a clear job description would really help me I think. What do you all say yours is?

Thanks,
Valerie

Hi, Valerie,

Welcome to the forum. You are having the same kinds of problems that many of us have in one way or another, I think.

In my situation, I am a volunteer who is a "one woman show" so to speak. I am learning as I go since two years ago I knew zero...or maybe even less. The people at our church seem to have no idea of what our website should or shouldn't contain so they all think I am brilliant. :D However, I am not. I am still learning and need to make wholesale changes.

I think getting information is the bane of every web editor's existence. I have difficulty all the time. I get tired of chasing people around for information they say they want on the website. Nobody has as yet told me how they want it done. Maybe it would be helpful to me if they would. There are a couple of pages which I am considering dropping for a couple of reasons:

1. The information doesn't get to me.

2. Nobody visits the page because it doesn't contain updated information.

I am in the process of gently telling everyone to get the information to me. I am not going to chase them around any more. If they don't want it displayed, so be it. The flip side to that coin is that most of the information is of the kind that people already know.

Because of that I am going to revamp the entire website. I need to make the pages smaller so the our dial-up users, which is the majority by far, don't have to wait forever for the page to appear.

I can tell that you are really distressed. What does the pastor or any kind of oversite committee say or isn't there any? I don't have anyone looking over my shoulder at all because they "trust" me. In my situation, I would welcome some suggestions from those submitting information. What kind of changes are they wanting you to make?

Part of this involves how you view your job. Since you are being paid, you are working for somebody and those somebodies have a say whether anyone likes it or not. I just want to do a good job and not embarrass God, the minister, the congregation, or myself although I think embarrassing God would be a difficult thing to do.

If you can, stand back from the situation and see if you can tell what really is going on. Is somebody trying to be manipulative? Does somebody want all of the power/control? Usually, there are many things occurring.

Tell me more, and I will respond. I may not be right, but I will respond.

What is the URL of your church? I would like to take a look at it. I look at church websites constantly so I can learn from them. Thanks!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Carol

[firefly99324]

www.bluemountainchurch.com (http://www.bluemountainchurch.com/)

I don't know much about web design. I'm pretty much self taught. I use a template and insert the information provided to me. I started out as a volunteer, but our Administrative Pastor thought I should get paid for my time...so now I get a monthly check.:)


I can tell that you are really distressed. What does the pastor or any kind of oversite committee say or isn't there any? I don't have anyone looking over my shoulder at all because they "trust" me. In my situation, I would welcome some suggestions from those submitting information. What kind of changes are they wanting you to make?



Nope, no committe. Just me trying to decipher what everyone wants. It's usually changes like "Make the pictures I send you full size in the gallery. Don't change the layout of my area without consulting me first." Silly stuff that they have no clue about and I really feel that's a judgement call on my part. The layout and design should be up to me, the content up to them. Right? Wrong? :confused:

Part of this involves how you view your job. Since you are being paid, you are working for somebody and those somebodies have a say whether anyone likes it or not. I just want to do a good job and not embarrass God, the minister, the congregation, or myself although I think embarrassing God would be a difficult thing to do.

I work for the Administrative Pastor. He gets to tell me what to do.:D I think that the Children's pastor, for example, doesn't get to say "Don't change anything without consulting me first." He should say"Hey, can you make those pics close to full screen size? If not that's cool, as long as we can get a good view of them." I mean, he doesn't know the specs of our site. What if we don't have the space to hold a lot of video or pics? Especially at large high quality size!

Maybe I'm just being defensive. I'm getting ready to do an overhaul anyway. I like to change things up every 6mos to a year. It keeps me from being bored!!

Thanks gor your post. Be kind when you see my site!;)
Valerie
www.bluemountainchurch.com (http://www.bluemountainchurch.com/)

[ckvkkeek]

Well your post brings up two things.
1. How much do you get paid?
If you don't feel comfortable answering this, I understand. I am a volunteer and would actually say no if leadership ever wanted to pay me. Yeah, its my time being put into it but there are many other unpaid volunteers that do stuff for free.

2. Just brush it off and give a simple reply. Saying something like, "Thanks for the email and content. I will make it live on the site and you are free to make suggestions. However, please understand that there are some limitations with good web design that sometimes requires me to change the layout content provided for me."

Say that whether they say "consult me first" or not. It sets the precedent. However, don't be a snob. Listen to your users. On my site, there are several things that I don't care for. But users gave me feedback and I gave them what they wanted. Learn to make a distinction from the important stuff (usability) and the unimportant stuff (is that image going to be centered or left justified?).

While you may be the webmaster, they are your users and their opinion matters. If you rub your users the wrong way you will find yourself in the middle of a conflict because of your attitude.

This happened in my last church. The webmaster had his own little kingdom and wouldn't listen to people like myself, who had extensive knowledge of websites. And he was getting paid.... which frustrated me even more.

There are even times when I send out an email to all the people on our mailing list and request that they take the time to give me some feedback.

Also when you go to redesign your site it would be very beneficial for you to get rid of some of the flash. It really slows down the viewing of your site. And I am on high speed cable internet access.

[firefly99324]

Yeah, I've been wanting to get rid of that flash. It's starting to drive me batty. But, I hear a lot of people from our church say that they like it.

1. How much do you get paid?
If you don't feel comfortable answering this, I understand. I am a volunteer and would actually say no if leadership ever wanted to pay me. Yeah, its my time being put into it but there are many other unpaid volunteers that do stuff for free.


As for my pay....it's minimal, but makes the effort worth while and helps with the bills. I get paid monthly and I don't feel bad for taking that paycheck. I think that web maintenance should be considered a job just like..let's say...janitor. Up keep of the web is just as important. It's great that you are working on a volunteer basis and would even refuse money if offered...But I feel that this is a ministry for me and there are lots of ministries that are paid positions...Senior Pastor, Worship Pastor...I think you get it. I don't feel that being paid or not being paid makes my ministry less of a ministry or my time not as valuable since I'm being paid and not a volunteer. It's all God's work paid or not and personally, it would be silly of me not to accept the money when God knows I need it for my family. It's one of the ways He has blessed me in my life.

The webmaster had his own little kingdom and wouldn't listen to people like myself, who had extensive knowledge of websites. And he was getting paid.... which frustrated me even more.

I would listen to someone if they had the web knowledge.


Thanks for the input on my site.

[flutem3]

You wrote:

"I would listen to someone if they had the web knowledge."

I listen to people whether they have "web knowledge" or not...or at least what is commonly defined as "web knowledge." It is amazing what I learn from people who are not confined by what they have been taught at some school or another. Very refreshing. :D

That being said, however, I wish I had some training. I like your web site, but I agree about too much flash. Ask the people in the congregation how often they look at it. You see it every time you work on the website. I don't know how many returnees you have, but I don't have nearly what I would like to have...not be a long shot.

It is easy to look at flash once and think it is great!! However, it see it frequently gets tiresome, I think. I have the capabilities of using flash, but I don't. Sometimes, I think we are trying to impress people with what we can do technically. I don't mean you specifically, but I discovered as I learned how to do more things, I was highly tempted to place them on the site and did sometimes. But I soon had people suggesting that it might be better if I took it easy on stuff. I do wish I could make our site more "sticky" though.
Most people just don't return.

Well, I have gotten on another tangent. Sorry.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Carol :cool:

[firefly99324]

I like flash for the most part. It can just be overwhelming sometimes. As for slower connection for dial-up...according to my web stats most people are using DSL or cable and have an average connect time of 0.3 seconds. I think the way technology is going, I'll never be able to keep up and make everyone happy. So for now I'm going with majority...cable modem or DSL. But still, flash is annoying sometimes. I'm looking into making a site where flash viewing is optional. The best of both worlds.

[flutem3]

I like flash for the most part. It can just be overwhelming sometimes. As for slower connection for dial-up...according to my web stats most people are using DSL or cable and have an average connect time of 0.3 seconds. I think the way technology is going, I'll never be able to keep up and make everyone happy. So for now I'm going with majority...cable modem or DSL. But still, flash is annoying sometimes. I'm looking into making a site where flash viewing is optional. The best of both worlds.

Hey, that would be nifty!! I don't know how to do that. At any rate I have epilepsy so flash sometimes is difficult for me depending upon what it is so I tend not to look at it very much.

I am surprised that most of the people coming to your site are using broadband. Our congregation is about 70% dial-up. I wonder what causes that much difference? Any ideas, anyone?

Carol

[firefly99324]

I live in a small town and the two biggest Internet providers are mostly promoting cable modem or DSL. I do have a few dial-upers, though.

So, no one has yet to answer my question about a job description. So I asked the dictionary.....



A Webmaster is a person who either:

Creates and manages the information content (words and pictures) and organization of a Web site
Manages the computer server and technical programming aspects of a Web site
Or does both.

So, I guess if I'm the "creator" of the content and I get to "manage" it, then suggestions are ok, but I ultimately get to decide how it is presented on the site. Great!!

It really doesn't matter anymore. ;)

[flutem3]

It really doesn't matter anymore. ;)


Hi,

How did you resolve the issues so quickly, or did you quit? :) I am sorry that none of us answered your question? It was a nice straight-forward question at that.

I think you found a good answer yourself. I would have undoubtedly confused the issue if I would have tried to answer it!!

Carol

[ckvkkeek]

I would listen to someone if they had the web knowledge.


That is not the right attitude to have. You should listen even if they don't. I recently made a huge change to the members only section of the site because a guy said he found it hard to navigate. This guy has absolutely zero web knowledge. But what he said still had merit.

Even the unknowledgable are your users.

[ckvkkeek]

So for now I'm going with majority...cable modem or DSL.

Maybe they are the majority due to your site being to slow to load on a dial up. So they come once, but don't come back.

I'd still develop to where it was bearable on a dial up. Keeping your page close to 100K in size.
Just my .02.

ck

[ckvkkeek]

I'm looking into making a site where flash viewing is optional. The best of both worlds.

I missed this in my last reply.

How would you do that? Would it be a home page with a splash screen? If so... i'd recommend against it for 2 reasons.
1. I hate intro screens, and a lot of people find them annoying.
2. Upkeep would be twice as hard.

[ckvkkeek]

Now your first question :-)

I'd say that the websters dictionary has some merit to it's title.

However, in a church setting it will be somewhat different. Because you are dealing with some people in Biblical roles, and depending on your church that can get rather cumbersome.

In most churches you are under a minister and an Elder, and possibly a deacon. And to respect those roles, what they say should go. And if you disagree, don't get mad. Just recognize that you aren't the person for this particular job.

Now I am blessed to have been given a great amount of freedom in my role, but part of that is because I do listen. I go out of my way to get feedback from users. And have made many changes in response to that.

What you don't want to see is you being talked about behind your back... "yeah, the site is good but firefly won't listen to us to make the site better."

I've seen this happen :-/

This was one of the dozens of reason I left my last church. It was a sign of a bigger issue within the church.

Now there is a point where you have to draw the line, you aren't going to please everybody. But you should be able to think of numerous things you have changed on your site due to feedback from fellow church members.

ck

[firefly99324]

Maybe they are the majority due to your site being to slow to load on a dial up. So they come once, but don't come back.


Whatever.

In most churches you are under a minister and an Elder, and possibly a deacon. And to respect those roles, what they say should go. And if you disagree, don't get mad. Just recognize that you aren't the person for this particular job.


Who ever said I got mad?

You know, I'm sorry i ever posted. What do you have against me and you don't even know me? So much for support from others on this forum.

[ckvkkeek]

Don't take what I am saying personal.

I am sorry if you are.

As for my first comment, it is true. People who are on dial up will not repeat visit a site they can't view.

And I never said you were mad. I was speaking in the general terms on a public forum for others to learn from.

I was not directing it at you. I am sorry for anything I said that offended you. Not my intention at all.

I as a fellow Christian techie do get frustrated when I see churches doing such bad jobs with their web site (again, I am speaking in general here, not about your site (which other than the amount of flash, I think is great)). The power of a website is just so great. I have been amazed to see the amount of people my churches website has brought through the door.

[firefly99324]

ckvkkeek wrote

What you don't want to see is you being talked about behind your back... "yeah, the site is good but firefly won't listen to us to make the site better."


I had worked hard for three years on our churches site and I have lots of returning visitors and the only complaint that I had was people trying to tell me how the site should be based on what THEY think is right and I was only looking for a little support in the fact that as a WEBMASTER I should have final say.
Thanks

[ckvkkeek]

I'd like to respond... but since you are already taking my post as a personal attack, I will refrain.

Good luck with your website.

[flutem3]

Valerie wrote:

"I had worked hard for three years on our churches site and I have lots of returning visitors and the only complaint that I had was people trying to tell me how the site should be based on what THEY think is right and I was only looking for a little support in the fact that as a WEBMASTER I should have final say."


Hi,

Valerie, we have all been in your situation in one way or another. I think that in the end you will have the final say because you are the webmaster and have no committee that works with you. By default, in a way, you have the say because you have the control.

But that doesn't make anyone right or wrong. People here are just giving you opinions on what you wrote. You were looking for everyone to agree with you because we are web site editors. However, I don't know of any group of webmasters, teachers, or any other group that will always agree and support one another.

You have a wonderful website. I wish I had the ability to design one that was just one-third as nice and have people return. But I am just still learning, and the people do not return very often. There is a kind of core group of returnees. I would love to be in your shoes, I think. At least you have some people there who care that information is on the web site. What if they didn't care or ignored you unless you bugged them to death? You wouldn't like that a bit I am certain.

Just take everything that we write on here with a grain of salt. None of us has perfect perceptions even though some of us would like to think he/she does...including me. But I know I don't either.

Hang in with us. We really are a decent group. And some of the people are right bright too!!

Carol

[firefly99324]

Thanks Carol,

I know that not everyone is right or wrong, but some tact in how you say things would be nice. (I can learn to do the same too.)

I wasn't looking for someone to agree with me, I was looking for the answer to the question "What's your job description?" I'm still learning and I don't have all of the knowledge that I need to have. That's why I asked the question in the first place. FOR HELP. I was hoping for a list of qualities or a few sentences of something describing the job so I would know how to react in certain situations. I felt that ckvkkeek was not giving advice or support, but...well, almost like judging me based on two things

1.) I'm paid staff
2.) I don't listen to others...which is wrong.

I listen to others. In fact most of my design is based on what others want. I just feel that what you see on a church website should reflect what the church is, and whether us webmasters want to believe it or not, it's a reflection on us too. I don't want someone to go to my site and be so distracted by how it looks that they can't see who we are and what we're about. If I did everything people in our church told me to do...well, let's just say you wouldn't come back. :D

That's all! I don't take anything you say personally, ckvkkeek. I'm sorry for my spouts. I'm sure you have a lot more talent than I do and I appreciate you opening my eyes to a few things. Like the flash for instance. You mentioned a splash screen..nope. Don't like them. I was thinking an option at the top of the page that would allow visitors to turn off flash. I've been to a few sites like that and I thought it would be cool to check it out. That way if visitors want flash they got it. If they don't then they can turn it off. As for upkeep being twice as hard...well, that's what they pay me for.

Thanks, sorry, and good luck.

[David Gillaspey]

Hi Valerie,

Thanks for posting.

"What is your job description" is such a good question (in general) I think I'll make a Conversation Starter out of it, in the next few days.

The fact that this thread digressed from your original question reflects two things:

1) Conversations among people in real life do just that -- conversations wander and segue and go all sorts of directions. Thus I allow threads to go where they will on this forum.

2) The fact that no one answered your original question reflects the fact that a lot (and maybe most) church webmasters (I would guess) don't actually have written job descriptions.

It's my opinion that the ministry of church webmasters (that is, "internet ministry") has the same status that youth ministry had 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. Today, as soon as a church can afford to do so, it will hire a full time youth pastor. I'll bet that wasn't always the case. Same with children's ministry. But we are years from the same being true of church webmasters. The proof is the almost complete lack of job listings for church webmasters to be found on www.churchstaffing.com (the largest source of jobs ads for churches). If you visit www.churchstaffing.com, you'll see want ads for senior/associate pastors, youth pastors, children's pastors, worship leaders, and occasionally communications directors and/or technical directors. I rarely have seen an ad for webmaster.

(This is not an issue of paid vs. non-paid. I'm talking about, do senior pastors (ministers, pulpit ministers, priests, elder boards, etc.) really understand the importance of this ministry? We do. Do they?)

I say all this to assert that the role of "church webmaster" is still very much in flux. That's why it's very possible that the pastors and ministry leaders at your church have a very different view of your role than you do.

I think you're right -- you should have the right to make decisions about the content and design of your church's website. But you have to remember that church websites are a very publicly visible ministry. With that comes much responsibility and, yes, the potential for a requirement of oversight. Some of the oversight is necessary, some of it "nit-picking."

The real question, however, is do you have a written job description? Any well-managed company, church or ministry provides or creates a written job description for their paid employees (and even for volunteer ministry leaders). Now I realize you didn't ask us if we had written job descriptions. But you wouldn't be asking us if you had a written job description. (No, I'm not blaming you if you don't. It's the employer's responsibility to provide it.)

So, if you don't have a written job description -- detailing, among other things, what authority you have and don't have over the website -- perhaps you should ask your pastor to create one for your position. Without it, it's no wonder so many people want to tell you how to do your job.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites
(and forum administrator)

[flutem3]

Valerie wrote:

"I wasn't looking for someone to agree with me,"

Hi, Valerie,

You are a rare soul indeed. I want people to agree with me. :) All the time...on everything..., of course they don't!!! But that doesn't stop me from wanting them to agree.

Valerie, I have to tell you that one time I was so aggravated at a person on a forum that I address the person in the same ugly manner which I was criticizing another person for doing. I am old enough to know better too. (64) Nonetheless, I left my tact in a bag some place for some unknown reason.

I can assure you that I was thoroughly raked over the coals for my approach which I should have been. I will not forget that. I need always to remind myself that nobody can see my facial features, body language, etc. when I am writing. I may be writing something I think is "cute" or funny and grinning from ear to ear. The reader, however, doesn't see that and thinks I am being rude, disrespectful, or whatever. Since I post a lot, I have many opportunities for these kinds of things to happen. And they do from time to time. And then I feel like an idiot!! :D A green-faced toothy idiot.

If you can tell me some ways to get people to come back to our website like they do to yours, I would appreciate some pointers. I am at a loss.

Carol

[flutem3]

Hi, David,

"What is a webmaster?" will make a terrific thread. I wonder what the answer to that question is myself sometimes.

And it is going to vary widely and wildly from church to church, I think. I also think that is a reason none of us tried to answer the question. We really are unable to do so with much specificity at all.

I think many of us have defined it for ourselves and tried the best we know how under the circumstances we find ourselves in.

I cannot imagine our church paying a webmaster to be quite honest about it. It would be at the bottom of the list of "things for which we pay others to do." And yet both of our pastors are quite computer literate, more so than I for that matter, and understand the value of a website...at least in vague terms. I don't know whether they understand what we really could be doing if we had the cooperation of all involved. That would be a great joy!!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Carol

[firefly99324]

Thank you, David.

That's a great thought. I'll be sure to ask my Administrative Pastor what he thinks my job description is.

You said:
2) The fact that no one answered your original question reflects the fact that a lot (and maybe most) church webmasters (I would guess) don't actually have written job descriptions.

I was starting to wonder that myself. I guess what happened to me is the person who was working on the site 5 years ago was moving out of town and well, the current site was updated with information from 2 years before that. I couldn't stand it. So I went to our Admin. Pastor and asked if I could re-do the site and update it. He gladly gave it to me. I worked on getting the right design (which has changed since then) and gathering information to put on the site. It took me 6 months (since I couldn't devote the appropriate time on the volunteer basis) to get it just right. I was so nervous about the launch,too. After, the Admin Pastor saw how hard I was working he went to the Board of Elders and reccomended it be a paid position. So, here I am years later ALWAYS looking for ways to make it better.

Maybe I should start with what I think is my job description and not wait for others to put theirs out their. Here goes...

I feel that MY job description is this:
To display content and mange that content on a website and to do frequent updates keeping it as current as possible. I feel that suggestions are welcomed and looked at with an open mind, but display of content and layout of the site is to be determined by me at my discretion...within reason, of course. I do have to discuss things with the Admin. Pastor. I can't just totally do what I want.

David also said
I say all this to assert that the role of "church webmaster" is still very much in flux. That's why it's very possible that the pastors and ministry leaders at your church have a very different view of your role than you do.


I also do video editing as my profession and I can say from experience that people don't get how much time and effort is put in to creating a 60sec promo or even a 3min sermon starter. I think the issue that I have most with certain people that make suggestions, I mean tell me, what is better for the site, is that they really don't understand web technology at all or how much work it consists of. I think most of the time it's not about how they view my role, it's just that they think it's easy and they could do better. Who knows, maybe they can. But for now I'm the designer and I guess I would just like some respect and for my job as the webmaster to be seen as an important ministry just like any other ministry in our church. That the website is a way for people to learn, grow, and interact and shouldn't be taken for granted.

(Sorry if I'm sound melodramatic.:D)

I'm really looking forward to this conversation starter!!!!!

[firefly99324]

If you can tell me some ways to get people to come back to our website like they do to yours, I would appreciate some pointers. I am at a loss.

Carol

Carol,

I'm sure it's mostly because I post schedules and the calendar (when the info is provided) The Woship Team checks back often to see schedules and I have a lot of people that go to the contact page to contact a pastor. Other than that I change the home page every Monday with a new graphic, sometimes a Bible verse. At one time I had daily Bible readings. I think the more interactive you make it the more they come back. We put up pictures and videos of recent events that people look at and then send family and friends to see. I'm looking to put up a forum for the We-Care program we have so people can list items they want to donate. Stuff like that.

Hope that helps a little!!
Valerie

[flutem3]

Valerie wrote:

"At one time I had daily Bible readings. I think the more interactive you make it the more they come back."

Hi,

Thanks for the ideas. I change some things frequently...weekly. I have a Bible Challenge which I thought people would enjoy. I find that I enjoy it and a couple of others. :) On most of the pages, I have proverbs which change every time you return to the page, but nobody has ever noticed that they change.

I have also used the random Bible verses which change, and nobody has noticed that either. :confused: But I have not given up. Since we have so many dial-up users, I am trying to make the index page smaller. I have, but it still takes too long for most people. They just won't wait any more, it seems.

I think I am going to have to take the entire thing apart. I cannot figure out what is making it so large. I have another page which is similar, and it is 1/4 the file size. I don't understand at all.

Well, I shall keep plugging away, but I am not doing more today. I am going to watch college football!! Three cheers. I just really enjoy bowl season!

Thanks again for your suggestions. Do you prefer to be called Valerie or Val?

Carol

PS Our ministers have no way to be contacted on the internet other than the general email address for the church...only by phone. :rolleyes:

[flutem3]

Valerie wrote:

"I guess I would just like some respect and for my job as the webmaster to be seen as an important ministry just like any other ministry in our church. That the website is a way for people to learn, grow, and interact and shouldn't be taken for granted."

Amen!!! People think it takes no time at all. Even one like mine takes me a lot of time because I am learning as I go. Amen, again!!!

Carol

PS I have some people who tell me what a wonderful thing I am doing. Then I ask if they have seen the website. They haven't. And so it goes. :)

[firefly99324]

Carol wrote:

PS I have some people who tell me what a wonderful thing I am doing. Then I ask if they have seen the website. They haven't. And so it goes. :)


That's hillarious!! I needed a laugh!!

Val or Valerie...no preference

[flutem3]

And I have found out at a later date that they didn't have computers either. That really is the clincher.

Carol :D