Advice for Changes

[KristenAH]

I just recently found this site and I love all the information. I redesigned our church website in July 2004 (www.faithchurchumc.org) and believe it or not still have not received all the information needed, so some spots are still empty. Bad, bad, bad!!!

I figure I have a lot of things to change. I would love to have some feed back on what I could change and what is good. I am hoping to not have to go through another whole redesign, but will if I have too.

Thanks for your time,
Kristen

[mickmel]

All in all, be proud - it's a good looking site! In the interest of constructive criticism, here are a few things:

- The top menu is broken in Firefox, so I had to pull up Internet Explorer to use your site. If I was a visitor, I'd have simply left. There is a gap between the menu item and the drop-down list, so when I start moving down to choose a sub-item, the menu disappears. Always test in multiple browsers.

That in mind, you did a nice job of making all of the items accessible even when it was "broken" in Firefox, by having everything listed down the side on the subpages - well done!

- All of the "TBA" stuff on the front needs to go. That is valuable space there, and it's being wasted.

- Most of your internal links appear to be done using graphics. That's all fine and well, but you're losing a lot of potential search engine traffic. Much of what Google uses to determine the content of a page is the "anchor text" of incoming links (the text that is linked that points to that page). In your case, there is no anchor text, so you won't rank as well for those words/phrases.

- Along those lines, you need to mention details about the page you're on in the "title" of each page. This will also help with your search engine rankings.

- Is the youth section not available? I can't get it to come up.

Hope those help!

Mickey

[flutem3]

Hi, Mickey,

Welcome aboard. It is nice to see another face. Here is mine. :D

I was looking at your website. What is the race for Habitat for Humidity? In view of our weather, and yours too, I imagine, I can understand why the word, humidity, would be used. If you intended for it to be Humanity, it also needs to be changed in the PDF file as well.

Mickey, what kind of web design experience, computer experience, programming experience, etc. do you have? I am at the beginning of the road with this stuff, but I have taken some mighty long steps from where I was a year and a half or so ago.

I am just a curious soul.

Carol

[mickmel]

I was looking at your website. What is the race for Habitat for Humidity? In view of our weather, and yours too, I imagine, I can understand why the word, humidity, would be used. If you intended for it to be Humanity, it also needs to be changed in the PDF file as well.
It's someone's idea of a clever play on words from "Habitat for Humanity", so it's correct. I think it's stupid and confusing, but it's what they choose to call the race, so that's what I put on the site...

Mickey, what kind of web design experience, computer experience, programming experience, etc. do you have? I am at the beginning of the road with this stuff, but I have taken some mighty long steps from where I was a year and a half or so ago.
I run about a dozen various websites. A couple of my larger ones are Christian Guitar Resources (http://www.christianguitar.org/) and Google Earth Hacks (http://www.googleearthhacks.com/). I've been playing with web design for about five years and I've been employed at Mt. Bethel (http://www.mtbethel.org/) for about a year.

[flutem3]

Mickey wrote:

"It's someone's idea of a clever play on words from "Habitat for Humanity", so it's correct. I think it's stupid and confusing, but it's what they choose to call the race, so that's what I put on the site..."

Hi,

I just think it is just plain weird. I have a really good sense of humor, but in view of the work that Habitat does, I wouldn't think the church would want to do that especially in view of that fact that they appear to have had a long time involvement with Habitat.

Well, to each his/her own, I guess. Straaaaange.

It sounds to me as if you are quite busy. And it also appears that you are knowledgeable about this stuff. Do you do computer work for a living? I took a look at the other websites you mentioned. They look like they were made by the same hand. :) And they were!!!

Take care, and once again, welcome.

Carol

[mickmel]

I just think it is just plain weird. I have a really good sense of humor, but in view of the work that Habitat does, I wouldn't think the church would want to do that especially in view of that fact that they appear to have had a long time involvement with Habitat.
The church does a lot of work with Habitat, including a house or two every year (with money earned by the race). I need to push them harder to drop the funny name.

Do you do computer work for a living?
I work at Mt. Bethel. My primary responsibility is the website, although I do a lot of PC troubleshooting for both the church and our Academy - a couple hundred computers in all. The other websites supplement my income a bit, but not nearly enough to retire on - yet. :)

I took a look at the other websites you mentioned. They look like they were made by the same hand.
I'm bad about finding a design I like and using it on all of my sites. I'm more of a programmer than an artist. My biggest concerns are in functionality, ease of updates and search engine rankings. Art comes later.

[flutem3]

Mickey wrote:

" Art comes later."

Hi,

What about the WOW factor?

Carol

[mickmel]

What about the WOW factor?
I try not to make my sites too ugly, but let's face it - none of us are going to truly "wow" anyone. You can't compete in the wow department against the big sites out there - MTV, Cartoon Network, ESPN, etc, that have dozens of people working on them. Most church sites that try to "wow" people end up looking cheesy for even trying.

Also, you need to consider exactly what people are using to access your site. They don't all have flash and they don't all have Java. If you don't use those on your site, you have no "wow". If you do use those, you better have a good workaround for those that can't load those items. On my sites, I don't use much in the way of either one.

My personal opinion is this: It's a church site. Your URL is probably a deal giveaway for it. If they chose to come to your site, they're looking for something. It might be directions, it might be a phone number, it might be the time of the next choir practice. You need to get them that information as quickly and easily as possible.

Again, don't have a site bad enough to turn people away - a 1996 design, background music, huge (sloooow) images or an "intro" page will all do it. Keep it clean, keep it fast and give them what they want.

I think I said it in another thread, but I tend to lean (probably too far) to the "info over style" approach, simply because it's worked so well for me in terms of visitors. I could probably use a smidge more "wow" factor on some of my sites, but not too much. :)

[flutem3]

Mickey wrote:

"none of us are going to truly "wow" anyone. "

Mickey,

I was being "cute." Talk to Curtis about the WOW factor. I would enjoy the debate!!

Carol

[KristenAH]

Thanks for your critique!

The top menu is broken in Firefox,

Yes I know that. I just recently switched from explorer to firefox myself. My husband said he will write a script that will drop the top menu down, which will fix the problem in firefox. When I started this I didn't even know about any other browsers except Netscape, so I design it to work in Explorer.


All of the "TBA" stuff on the front needs to go. That is valuable space there, and it's being wasted.

I usually don't have a problem with this as the pastor gets me the information relatively quickly with a line up for the whole month. He has just been a bit too busy for this month. But I agree it looks terrible. However, I don't know what I could put there instead.

- Most of your internal links appear to be done using graphics. That's all fine and well, but you're losing a lot of potential search engine traffic.

Would filling in the "alt text" help with the search engine? I am really not familiar with how that all works.

- Along those lines, you need to mention details about the page you're on in the "title" of each page.

I will fix that.

Is the youth section not available? I can't get it to come up.

No. Our youth leader got a sudden job offer in Las Vegas and has left. I haven't had time to work with our new Youth director. The project is kinda on hold. I guess I should either put a placement page with some general text about the youth program or drop the button.

Thanks so much for your input. I will be working on the changes.

Kristen

[mickmel]

My husband said he will write a script that will drop the top menu down, which will fix the problem in firefox.
It's good to have someone like that around that can help. :)

I usually don't have a problem with this as the pastor gets me the information relatively quickly with a line up for the whole month. He has just been a bit too busy for this month.
I figured that was the case, but thought I'd mention it. If that data is typically filled in, it's probably alright to have up there.

Would filling in the "alt text" help with the search engine? I am really not familiar with how that all works.
Yes, it'll help. It might be just as good as a text link, although no one (outside of some Google programmers) could say for sure. I'm inclined to think that the anchor text in a plain text link would be more valuable than the alt text on an image link, but there's no way to positively know.

Our youth leader got a sudden job offer in Las Vegas and has left.
Yuck. :(

I guess I should either put a placement page with some general text about the youth program or drop the button.
I would go with a placement page with general text. One of the first things I look for on a church site (as a visitor) is the youth page, since I enjoy helping with our youth group. I would fully expect most medium/large churches to have a youth page, even if it's not very comprehensive.

I guess having no youth page is better than having a broken link, but a youth page with a couple of sentences would seem to be your best bet.

[Faithhb_lutheran]

Nice Site . I like the way info is presented on the homepage. Good job

[cwgraves]

...but let's face it - none of us are going to truly "wow" anyone. You can't compete in the wow department against the big sites out there - MTV, Cartoon Network, ESPN, etc, that have dozens of people working on them. Most church sites that try to "wow" people end up looking cheesy for even trying.I agree that there are a lot of cheesy looking church (and non-church) sites. The reason is not because of trying to compete with the "big boys" or making the site look professional.
Also, you need to consider exactly what people are using to access your site. They don't all have flash and they don't all have Java. If you don't use those on your site, you have no "wow". If you do use those, you better have a good workaround for those that can't load those items. On my sites, I don't use much in the way of either one.Of course, it depends upon your definition of "the wow factor."

I don't use Flash or Java in my web sites, typically, unless a customer specifically asks for it. Then, I try to talk them out of it. Design your site to look professional and only use graphics that augment the content.

Let me explain what I meant when I said "the WOW factor". Have you ever gone to a site that you just said, "Wow, this site is pretty cool!" They have interactive messaging, forums (like this one), the content changes often (maybe even daily), etc... There is LOTS of content, and the design is clean and professional looking.

As a developer, I appreciate the work that some webmasters have done. I know what it takes to make it happen. It's not always easy.

Again, don't have a site bad enough to turn people away - a 1996 design, background music, huge (sloooow) images or an "intro" page will all do it. Keep it clean, keep it fast and give them what they want.That's exactly the point! The "Wow factor" is simply having a clean, professionally designed website that people want to stay once they have visited and will return because you have given them a gold nugget and they want more!

We've all been to sites (and the percentage is higher in the Christian circles) that are just plain bad. We've been acused of alluding to forcing everyone to hire a professional web developer (like me) to enhance their site. My main point that I have mentioned many times on this forum is to begin to think of it as a web ministry instead of just a web site.

Pornographers have web sites. As churches, we need to upgrade our web sites to web ministries. God deserves the very best that is available. In fact, we are COMMANDED to do "everything as unto the Lord." If I don't know how to take my site to the next level and leave with a sense of "wow", then it is time for me to seek outside help. As an entrepeneur, I don't have to know how to do everything. I just have to know someone who can do what I can't do.

By the way, I've seen in this database, and in other places, several good websites that can be enhanced to become great web ministries. Part of the difference is the way we present and think of them. Stop thinking like web designers and programmers. Start thinking like users using the internet to seek faith related things. Do things that make the congregation WANT to come to the site.

The "Wow factor" is when a site with 1 visit a week turns into an interactive, living application that the members of the church can't live without and you are hearing reports of people accepting the Lord online with one of the church members while chatting. I've personally received reports of it happening! If that doesn't "Wow" you, I'm not sure what will...

[flutem3]

Curtis wrote:

"The "Wow factor" is when a site with I visit a week turns into an interactive, living application that the members of the church can't live without and you are hearing reports of people accepting the Lord online with one of the church members while chatting. I've personally received reports of it happening! If that doesn't "Wow" you, I'm not sure what will..."

Hi, Curtis,

I agree. That is definitely a WOW. I have not ever heard reports of a person's accepting the Lord online, but I am certain that it must happen. And it is better than any kind of flash etc. that we could place on a web site. I just don't know how to make that happen.

I am taking another look at the congregation by having those who will take a survey. I am trying to get a handle on their computer use. And I asked people to include the names or URL's of web sites to which they returned again and again. I am interested in what the results will be. The survey is also going out in the newsletter. I am after a 15% return. Hopefully, I will get some ideas. This, of course, is just for our own use...not for outreach. Anyway, I want to find out if I can. It is a puzzlement.

Carol