Bible Database [Archive] - The Church Webmasters' Forum

flutem3

Sat., Sep. 17, 2005, 11:19 am

Does anyone know where I might get a Bible database containing the NIV and KJV versions? I would like a searchable Bible on our church site.

Hi,

One resource I use on our website is www.biblegateway.com. They have a search which you can include on your website. They supply the code as well. There are multiple translations of the Bible from which you can get whatever information you want.

I use it all the time and find it efficient...and fun too. I find all kind of information that I didn't know...frequently.

I hope this is the kind of thing you are looking for.

Carol

flutem3

Sat., Sep. 17, 2005, 11:26 am

Carol wrote:

"I hope this is the kind of thing you are looking for."

Sorry, I should have looked at your website first. I see you already have that search. I guess I don't understand what it is that you want; but if you find it, will you let me know so I can check it out too?

Thanks,

Carol

cwgraves

Sat., Sep. 17, 2005, 1:03 pm

Does anyone know where I might get a Bible database containing the NIV and KJV versions? I would like a searchable Bible on our church site.The King James Version is public domain and therefore I can send it to you in a database. What format do you prefer? I can send you an access mdb file. Let me know.

The NIV is copyrighted and I am unable to send it to you. If you want to create something yourself you can use the KJV as your basis. Zondervan will not even sell me a database of the NIV version. Same thing for the New Living Translation and many of the others.

I use the BibleGateway search if I need the NIV or something that is copyrighted.

MCD

Mon., Sep. 19, 2005, 3:17 pm

The King James Version is public domain and therefore I can send it to you in a database. What format do you prefer? I can send you an access mdb file. Let me know.

The NIV is copyrighted and I am unable to send it to you. If you want to create something yourself you can use the KJV as your basis. Zondervan will not even sell me a database of the NIV version. Same thing for the New Living Translation and many of the others.

I use the BibleGateway search if I need the NIV or something that is copyrighted.

I need it in an Access file. It is becoming impossible to get an NIV version. Southern Baptist even stopped using it in their Bible study material.

Thanks for the help.

cwgraves

Mon., Sep. 19, 2005, 4:43 pm

I need it in an Access file.I will send it to you later tonight when I get home.It is becoming impossible to get an NIV version.I know that the publishing companies need to cover their expenses, but... I don't think they should charge so much for the Word of God. The NIV translation was paid for long ago (I mean the actual act of doing the translation).

I contacted Zondervan about PURCHASING a copy of the database for my own use. They told me, "We already have enough Bible software out there." and "we don't authorize our databases for use on the internet. If you want the NIV (or other Zondervan translations), use one of the existing products."

That's not word for word, but the meaning is there.

I contact the United States Postal Service about purchasing a copy of the US zip code database. I filled out a request form, sent in a check and had a copy of the database. I could continue with the annual subscription, or keep the database as is.

Isn't the Bible text more important than the USPS zip code database? As a Christian, shouldn't I be more concerned about getting the Word of God in as many hands as possible? Just my 2 cents...

flutem3

Mon., Sep. 19, 2005, 8:15 pm

Isn't the Bible text more important than the USPS zip code database? As a Christian, shouldn't I be more concerned about getting the Word of God in as many hands as possible? Just my 2 cents...

I will throw in mine as well. Yes, I think getting the Bible into as many hands as possible in as many media as possible is one of the charges that we as Christians have...spread the Good News.

However, businesses don't work that way whether they sell encyclopedia or Bibles. If they don't sell Bibles, etc., how can they pay their expenses in order to produce the Bibles in the first place so they can give away others. It seems though that some companies are much better than others at spreading the Gospel however. I do not know what category a database fits, but I think I would treat it just like a book even though it isn't. Eventually, that database will be in the public domain but not for another 100 years or so. :)

On another topic...I do not understand at all why people would say that their members were not to use one Bible translation or another. Haven't they studied how the Bible was put together in the first place?

And here is a thought just because I like it:

If God does not exist, why does a human being have a conscience?

Carol

cwgraves

Mon., Sep. 19, 2005, 9:26 pm

However, businesses don't work that way whether they sell encyclopedia or Bibles. If they don't sell Bibles, etc., how can they pay their expenses in order to produce the Bibles in the first place so they can give away others.This has been a point of argument amongst Christian recording artists, businesses, etc... for many years. When is it appropriate to call something a business or a ministry?

I understand a business needs to cover its expenses. That is a given.

If anyone remembers a christian recording artist named Keith Green, he was in the "ministry" camp. At one point he made a statement on one of his albums, "If you cannot afford this album, contact us and we will give it to you." At one of his concerts, instead of having a table of albums for sale, he gave them away! His music is still popular today (amongst Christians).

I asked Zondervan if they would sell me a subscription or allow me to license the NIV data for inclusion in a program that I was developing. I mentioned that I would send a royalty and more than cover their expenses. They refused to allow me to use their data because "Enough software has been written." That's like saying, "We don't think God wants anyone else to be saved." If they weren't going to receive many thousands or millions of dollars from my software, they weren't interested.

I forgot to mention the fact that they made me fill out a questionaire asking how many expected sales I forecasted. If I was going to sell a lot of copies, they would have let me license the data. Since I was writing a software module for my Church Website system, and would not be making much money, they weren't interested.

I am not saying I want the NIV database for nothing. I am willing to PAY FOR IT! I own several copies of the NIV Bible and at almost $50 or $60 per Bible, Zondervan has received more than their share of my money.

flutem3

Mon., Sep. 19, 2005, 10:17 pm

Curtis wrote:

"I forgot to mention the fact that they made me fill out a questionnaire asking how many expected sales I forecasted. If I was going to sell a lot of copies, they would have let me license the data. Since I was writing a software module for my Church Website system, and would not be making much money, they weren't interested."

Curtis,

It is obvious that I did not understand the situation at all. I apologize. In view of what you said, it is beyond my ken as to why they did not supply you the data base. I cannot imagine why they didn't allow you to get it. Their reply does not make sense to me either.

Did you deal with the same person each time? If you did, try again and ask for somebody else. It might work. I don't know. But it seems to me in my brain which knows very little about what I am discussing, there must be a way to get it. I will think about it. Who knows? Maybe I can think of something which would be helpful. Won't hurt to consider the issue.

I wasn't being flippant when I mentioned the business aspect. Some people, like my brother, never consider it. And I did not do it to provide the company with an excuse. Once again, I didn't mean to upset you or insult you or anything like that.

Carol

David Gillaspey

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 1:12 am

All,

I know that the publishing companies need to cover their expenses...My opinion is that's not correct. Most publishing companies, including Christian publishing companies, are FOR PROFIT companies. That means they exist to make as much money as possible from the products they develop, which is much more than just "cover their expenses." Seen in that light, it may be more understandable why Zondervan would restrict who gets their NIV database.

Also remember that anything put online is easily stealable. You can be sure Zondervan is very careful about that.

Speaking of Bible translations, there's a bewildering number of 'em out there, isn't there? I came across this website,

http://www.bible-researcher.com/versions.html

that helpfully gives the background of many different Bible translations.

It is becoming impossible to get an NIV version. Southern Baptist even stopped using it in their Bible study material.According to the above website, copyright access was not the problem. Rather, Southern Baptists were put off by the translators of the NIV talking about making it gender-neutral. So the Southern Baptists gathered a team of experts and produced their own Bible translation, the Holman Christian Standard Bible.

Finally, this website

http://rockhay.tripod.com/worship/translat.htm

lists a number of online Bibles sources, though I can't say how easily any of them can be inserted into a church website via code.

Sincerely,

David Gillaspey
President
Great Church Websites

iamcam

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 1:26 am

Zondervan has been difficult to deal with for many Christian groups/organizations/companies, etc. I remember back when Crosswalk.com wasn't even able to include the NIV translation in their search b/c Zondervan didn't really want to let them do that. My suggestion is look for another translation, such as the NASB (copy guidelines: http://lockman.gospelcom.net/tlf/copyright.php) or the New Living Translation (http://newlivingtranslation.com/, http://www.tyndale.com).

MCD

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 8:46 am

According to the above website, copyright access was not the problem. Rather, Southern Baptists were put off by the translators of the NIV talking about making it gender-neutral. So the Southern Baptists gathered a team of experts and produced their own Bible translation, the Holman Christian Standard Bible.

This is probably correct. I know most people did not like the gender neutral translation that was released a couple of years ago. I have never seen anyone use it. I do not like the Christian Standard Bible. I must confess I am probably biased. All Scripture that I have memorized is in the NIV or KJV translations. After 46 years I simply prefer not to use a new version.

BTW - I still could use a Access database file containing the Bible. You can send it to martin1028@gmail.com

flutem3

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 10:52 am

"All Scripture that I have memorized is in the NIV or KJV translations. After 46 years I simply prefer not to use a new version."

Hi,

One of the joys of my life is having parallel Bibles so that I can go from one to another translation to compare how the translations vary. It is amazing to me how different they are from time to time.

One example which makes no sense to me can be found in the New Living Translantion-2 Corinthians 12:2-4. Paul is talking, of course, and it reads "I," and in the footnotes it says, "he." Well, I don't know about you, but it makes a big difference whether something happened first or third person. The KJV says, "he." And, of course, we know that must be correct because that is the language the Bible was written in. :rolleyes:

Another difference in translation which is important to me involves the Beatitudes. To me, blessed is much different and carries an entirely different feel about it than the word, happy. "Happy are those..." sounds and feels much different to me than "Blessed are those..." I am happy when I don't misspell something, and the spell checker says, ok.

I don't understand why the people won't use a gender neutral Bible...other than some things sound funny in their ear. It sounds odd to me too. I don't believe Jesus made distinctions based on gender. But Paul did. Paul "invented" the church and made up the rules on the fly so to speak. Of course, "on th fly" for Paul was much slower than it is for us. :) He was an amazing man.

Carol

MCD

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 12:21 pm

Paul "invented" the church and made up the rules on the fly so to speak.

I respectedly disagree with the above statement. Jesus spoke of the church as his bride and even told Peter that he was the rock upon which the church would be built. It was the church that sent Paul out to the mission field. The guidlines of the church were put to paper by Paul but those rules were spoken to Paul first by the Holy Spirit.

flutem3

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 12:42 pm

The guidelines of the church were put to paper by Paul but those rules were spoken to Paul first by the Holy Spirit.

Hi,

I know that is correct. I was thinking more in terms of the individual more "established" groups to which Paul wrote. I think the Holy Spirit spoke to Paul on the road. To me, only, it seems that he liked rules for one thing just because of who he was, and I don't think there is any right or wrong to it. I just think he did. And he used them well. Where would we be without some of them?

However, when you get into how literal the information is, I go astray somewhat if for no other reason than what he said regarding women and their "place" so to speak. What I think he was reflecting in his approach to women had little to do with God or Jesus but mirrored the thinking of the culture at the time. I am not a Bible scholar so these are just what I think now. Who knows? Tomorrow I may have an "aha" moment which would change everything. :)

Carol

cwgraves

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 10:49 pm

Most publishing companies, including Christian publishing companies, are FOR PROFIT companies. That means they exist to make as much money as possible from the products they develop, which is much more than just "cover their expenses." Seen in that light, it may be more understandable why Zondervan would restrict who gets their NIV database.Again, it is a given that all for profit companies are in business - for profit! My only real complaint is the fact that because I was small potatoes in their eyes, they wouldn't let me purchase a license.

My view is a piece of the pie is better than no pie. I was willing to give Zondervan royalties. I have an encryption scheme that would make it difficult to steal the data. I was only planning on making the data available as part of a search, daily verse, etc... on my church website system.

As for the other conversations on this thread - I use the King James Version, NIV, NLT, New American Standard, and several of the pubic domain versions. I use the NIV and NLT primarily for personal devotions and Bible study. When preparing sermons, I tend to compare most versions that I have available and try to find any words or statements that are different. I then go back to the Strongs and find the meanings of those words. Then, I will usually preach from the King James and NIV.

flutem3

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 11:16 pm

Curtis wrote:

"My view is a piece of the pie is better than no pie."

Hi, Curtis,

I think they should give you the entire pie FREE. How about that? Curtis, I thought you weren't preaching any more. I am confused. :confused: Or is that what you did when you were preaching?
I use Strong's Concordance as well. And I enjoy it and find it useful.
The only problem I have is that the print is so tiny.

If you want to see something I did just because I enjoyed doing it, check out:

www.wabashfirstumc.org/beatitudes_eight_versions.html

It is not currently hooked into the website. I had it up for several months. I will put them up again in a three or four. I also want to do the Ten Commandments, 23rd Psalms, and some other favorite things which I haven't decided upon yet. This is over time, of course. People like them. I didn't know whether they would or not. One guy used the Beatitudes for his Sunday School class.

Well, if I have insulted anyone, I apologize. If I have demonstrated my ignorance, I will learn...and I know I have done that!!

Carol

cwgraves

Tue., Sep. 20, 2005, 11:23 pm

I thought you weren't preaching any more. I am confused. :confused: Or is that what you did when you were preaching?I am still preaching when the opportunity arises. I resigned my position from the last church, but am continuing to do the work of an evangelist. I am available for revival services, guest preaching and whatever doors the Lord opens.

If I don't preach, I'm afraid I would be consumed! Thank God He allows me to preach His word!

flutem3

Wed., Sep. 21, 2005, 12:22 am

Curtis wrote:

"If I don't preach, I'm afraid I would be consumed! Thank God He allows me to preach His word!"

Good grief, Curtis,

We don't want you to be consumed. Preach away...and with VIGOR!!...which I am sure you do if you preach like you write. :D

Carol

MCD

Fri., Sep. 23, 2005, 3:51 pm

If you want to see something I did just because I enjoyed doing it, check out:
Carol, that is a great idea. I may have to steal that idea. :)

flutem3

Fri., Sep. 23, 2005, 5:40 pm

MCD

Sat., Sep. 24, 2005, 9:45 am

Mark wrote:

"Carol, that is a great idea. I may have to steal that idea."

Hi, Mark,

Thank you!!

You don't need to steal it. I gladly give it to you. In fact, if you want to copy the entire thing, do so. It will save you lots of time. :D I don't type very fast so it took forever. But it was great fun to do and enlightening as well.

Carol

Thanks Carol. I was only going to steal the idea but due to your generosity I will accept your gift as well. If I do other Scripture I will let you know so that you can copy mine.

flutem3

Sat., Sep. 24, 2005, 10:54 am

Mark wrote:

"If I do other Scripture I will let you know so that you can copy mine."

You're very welcome!! We had quite a number of people check that page out which surprised me. I was doing it because I truly enjoy that kind of thing and hooked it up with the hope that a couple of others would enjoy it too. That page had 101 hits...and people stayed. When the page was getting no more hits, I took it down. But as you know, I kept it because I will use it again.

Mark, what ideas for scriptures do you have which you think people will enjoy in that format? And I would appreciate your sharing if you do the same thing. Thank you.

By the way, can anyone tell me whether the word scripture is supposed to be capitalized or not? I see it both ways. I am certain that one is right. I would guess that if we say the Scripture, it is capitalized. If we say scripture in general, it is not. But I don't know if that is accurate or not.

cwgraves

Sat., Sep. 24, 2005, 2:47 pm

If you will give me a list of scriptures you would like to see compared like the one we're discussing, I'll write a piece of code that will create the pages for you. I have most of the translations in a database and can combine them with little effort.

flutem3

Sat., Sep. 24, 2005, 4:15 pm

Curtis wrote:

"If you will give me a list of scriptures you would like to see compared like the one we're discussing, I'll write a piece of code that will create the pages for you. I have most of the translations in a database and can combine them with little effort."

Hi, Curtis,

Thank you for the offer. I know that what you have suggested would save time. However, for me the learning and understanding is looking up, reading, and typing each translation. Yes, it is tedious perhaps, but I know more about what the Beatitudes say than I ever did before in my life. And since I still love books, it is fun to look the information up in all of those different Bibles. I have Bibles all over the place!!

Thanks again. However, I am open for suggestions. I think I mentioned that I want to do the Ten Commandments, 23rd Psalm, and some Scripture from the New Testament, but I don't know what yet.

Can somebody tell me with a high degree of accuracy when scripture is to be capitalized and when it is not? I have looked all over trying to find the answer and haven't found it yet.

Thanks,

Carol

MCD

Mon., Sep. 26, 2005, 3:48 pm

Carol
I am not 100% sure but "scripture" should be capitalized when in reference to a Bible verse.

In regards to other Scripture to use on the translation pages I have considered the following:

The 139th Psalm
The Prodigal Son
The 100th Psalm

flutem3

Mon., Sep. 26, 2005, 11:33 pm

Mark wrote:

"The 139th Psalm, Prodigal Son, and the other psalm."

Those are good too. I don't know what I am going to do next, but I have other tasks I must finish first. I have too many things going at the same time. I am not making good progress on any of them. So I have them lined up to go.

I don't know why I do that once in a while. It isn't ever a good idea for me!!

Welcome, to our newest member, Lisa. May you enjoy yourself here as much as I do. :)

Carol