Church Website features

[cwgraves]

If time and money were no object, what types of features would you like to see on your church website?

[flutem3]

If time and money were no object, what types of features would you like to see on your church website?

Now, Curtis, that is a terrific question. I am going to give it some thought. The very first thing that comes to my mind is to have something, and I am not sure right now what "it" is that will be strong enough, powerful enough, important enough to make people return.

And I don't have the answer to that. Some people seem to return. Maybe it is kind of like the forum. When some people get their question answered, they don't return until they have another one. David mentioned that so it is not original at all in my thinking. I actually hadn't thought of that.

This and UMConnect are the two places I return to most often so for me, I enjoy being someplace where I can exchange information, debate, etc., be agreeable, disagreeable, decent, cranky, generous, questioning, contributing hopefully and always curious. And I enjoy having bright people on the other end of the line, of course, or it wouldn't be of value.The other websites I go to most often (other than the one I work on, of course) are Amazon.com, Webopedia.com, Answers.com. I also go to zillions of other sites to research whatever I am working on. If you think I am thinking this through as I go, you are right. Each one offers me something definite that I want. The information is good enough that I return.

I also now go to my blog which is new. If anyone would like to take a look and see what I am thinking about, it is:

www.spaces.msn.com/members/petoodle

Oh, my goodness. I just checked the above URL out. It was been picked up by Google already. WOW That was fast. I didn't even submit it yet. :D More fun than anything that I have written is to check out the comments of other people. I am just flabbergasted!! If you go there, check out August as well. There isn't much to read, but the comments are intriguing. And to anyone who wonders if I got into contact with the person (Onlyone) who said he was "anti-God," you better believe I did. And we have been exchanging occasional email. And I have been in touch with "Crystal." The Lord works in mysterious ways to be sure.

Well, I went on a tangent, but I am still thinking about your question, Curtis.
Maybe you can discern the answer from my meanderings. Who knows?

Bless one and all and those in the hurricane area,

Carol

[flutem3]

If time and money were no object, what types of features would you like to see on your church website?

Curtis, I just had another thought. One of the difficulties that I see with our specific congregation is that fewer than half of the homes are connected to the internet. In fact, a number have computers which aren't hooked up, and all they use them for is typing letters and playing solitaire. And they like it that way. We also have an older congregation. However, with our new pastors some of the younger couples are just beginning to return.

We have no more computer users this year than we had last year. Most of the people I have talked to, and I will be the first to tell you that it isn't enough to make any kind of signficant judgement, say they don't have time.
In some ways I believe that. It seems that everyone is scheduled to the hilt these days. I don't know when they have time to think and pray let alone visit websites. I don't know what kind of a problem this is in other churches.

I do know of one church in the town in California where Intel is located where everyone in the church is wired up, and the website is used for everything under the sun. But I think that is probably the exception, but it was great to hear about it.

Carol

[mrbelfry]

If time and money were no object well I'd quite like to fix my car so a pay rise would definately be top of my list!

I'd like to be able to show video's and stream audio on the website - this is a time issue because I don't know how much it costs and I don't have time to find out.

If I had money to spend I'd like to spend it on software like dreamweaver and photoshop and then with the money left over I'd go on some training courses to learn how to use them.

If time were no object I'd like a forum and I'd like to work much closer with our ministry leaders so that the content on our site for their ministry was better.

ps Carol - I tried checking out your blog but got a page cannot be displayed thing - plus I'm sorry if my post's have upset or offended you - please know that this was never my intention and please feel free to tell me when I've not explained myself properly or have been an idiot

[pmburrow]

Mr. Belfry said - I tried checking out your blog but got a page cannot be displayed thing -

Carol and Mr.Belfry,

I just realized why the link to your blog isn?t working. It isn?t suppose to have a www in front of the address.


http://spaces.msn.com/members/petoodle/

Phillip
www.discoveryumc.org (http://www.discoveryumc.org)

[flutem3]

Mr. Belfry wrote:

"I tried checking out your blog but got a page cannot be displayed thing - plus I'm sorry if my post's have upset or offended you - please know that this was never my intention and please feel free to tell me when I've not explained myself properly or have been an idiot"

:D You have not upset or offended me and you have not been an idiot. The reason the link didn't work was that I didn't put .com after msn. I thought I had checked the link because a wise man from UMConnect many moons, well not so many, said, "If you are going to send somebody a link, check it first." I made a boo boo. So the link is:

www.spaces.msn.com/members/petoodle

Now, I will check it. YOIKS!! It works. Thanks for telling me about it.

Carol

[flutem3]

To one and all,

I have been thinking about websites which, of course, is nothing new. And I have read what people have said which is nothing new either. However, one thing I keep noticing is people's saying stuff about a dynamic church website that people want to return to frequently. I agree with that 100%.

Can anyone give me examples of church websites that accomplish that...which have people return to the website again and again? I am trying to learn what exactly makes them work. I understand that it differs from church to church, but there certainly must be some patterns which attract many people consistently.

I know our website is not like that. There are certain sections that people go to consistently but not too many. I want to improve it.

Thanks.

Carol

[pmburrow]

Carol,

You've hit upon an interesting topic and the obvious goal of every webmaster, which is finding a way to get their visitors to continue to return to their site. I certainly don?t have a handle on getting our visitors to return, but I?ll be happy to share our strategy with you. It has been simply to include more dynamic material.

I?m sure that our site is similar to others churches. We have pages that will always contain static information. This information will rarely change. The visitors who visit these pages are not likely to return to them unless they need certain information. We also have several pages that are dynamic, such as our home page, an audio page, and our ?what?s happening? page.

On these pages we want to include information that changes each week or each month, like the current series, announcements, events, we even started including some personal stories of some of our members.

It?s our plan that some of our web savvy members and others, who may be interested in learning about Discovery, will visit and use the website like an electronic bulletin.

We've been monitoring our growth, and over the past 7-8 months we are showing a steady growth in the number of visitors. I?m like you in that I hope to learn from this discussion and continue to improve this growth.

Phillip
www.discoveryumc.org (http://www.discoveryumc.org)

[flutem3]

Phillip wrote:

"We've been monitoring our growth, and over the past 7-8 months we are showing a steady growth in the number of visitors."

Hi, Phillip,

I enjoyed your answer. I guess that is one of the ongoing challenges we face...other than getting information in a timely fashion.

Today I just wanted to stick my head in the sand. I got our newsletter which said that the circles would be starting again. I had them as in business so to speak all summer, and nobody noticed. Or if they noticed, didn't think it was important to tell me. And I knew the Youth had an activity on Saturday, but nobody filled me in on time etc. I am sure I am not telling anyone anything you don't already know. YIKES!! :confused: I wish this smiley were yelling too. With the remodeling project it seems that everything is even more confused (at least I am more confused) than ever.

I have good site statistics on our website too. There has been a steady growth over time. For ages we averaged .75 visit a day. Now, we are consistently at 12 which is much better. That is the number without including myself. But I have taken a really good look at the site statistics and have about decided that some of the pages are not worth my time. It may just be time to ditch them. I don't know yet.

One thing I have noticed is that people in the church still use the bulletin and newsletter for most of their church information. It is hard work getting them to change their habits. And, Curtis, we finally have the website address in the newspaper church list, on stationery, and on other material which goes out. That much is accomplished. Maybe I need to remind myself that I have only been doing this 1 1/2 years and using the computer for less than 3...and I taught myself which means I didn't have an accomplished teacher. Maybe I am suffering from "growing pains"...but not in silence. :D

Carol

[pmburrow]

Carol,

I love your attitude. You are amazing. Wouldn?t you love to move south? I would love to have someone with your passion on my team.

I know exactly some of the same feeling that you are speaking about. I mentioned that we have been growing since the first of the year. However, I didn?t say how we had been doing before that. I have been serving in this ministry for several years. Last year we had some of both the best and worst monthly visit totals. Then we began doing something right.

That something was attempting to be more dynamic. Then in June we launched our new web site and our visits jumped 39 percent the next month. Then in August we dropped just a little, but the last couple of days this area was without power due to Hurricane Katrina. Otherwise, I?m confident that the numbers would have been close to even. So far we are headed for a good month in September.

I say this to encourage you to hang in there. You probably won?t set any records this year. However, you are not only having fun, learning something new and exciting, you are beginning to give your church a web present. That present has to begin somewhere.

You also touched on the frustration of not being able to get updates. I still go through this sometimes. Having to depend on others can be frustrating at times. Then it can also be rewarding when everybody pitches in and things begin to happen. Those times are great.

I?m learning that sometimes everybody doesn?t necessary have the same passion as I do, and therefore it may takes a while for some people to share the same excitement and vision as I might.

It is also important for the staff has to see the importance of the web ministry. If the bulletin wasn?t printed next week, what would be the first thing on the agenda in the following Monday morning meeting? That same passion, and responsibility, has to be shown to the web ministry. One thing that helped our team this past year has been to include a staff member on the web team. While this member doesn?t work on the website, she is still very important because she is our link to the staff.

You are already at a disadvantage, with it being so hard for you to attend church. Is there someone who might also share your vision? Maybe this person could be a staff member. Trust me they don?t have to know anything about web development. Just somebody to talk to who shares the same vision as you will help. They probably won?t have the same passion. It would be great if they did.

You have come so far in such a short time. I think it is wonderful. Keep it up. One day you will be able to look back and see how far you have come.

Phillip

www.discoveryumc.org (http://www.discoveryumc.org)

[flutem3]

Phillip wrote:"

"You are already at a disadvantage, with it being so hard for you to attend church. Is there someone who might also share your vision? Maybe this person could be a staff member.

Hello, Sir Phillip. I have been trying to find such a person for the last year and a half. I have yet to find him/her. I have found people with passion for business, sports, news, game, etc. websites, but I have not yet found another soul with passion for a church website. However, no matter how I may sound from time to time my enthusiasm is high. The joy of it all is that the website has reconnected me to my own church.

And another really terrific thing has happened. I was distressed because I had not had communion for over twenty years. I went on a campaign to have communion brought to people with difficulty getting out. And to have it on a regular basis. It took a year, but the thing is finally in motion. I am one person who thinks communion is very important. And I don't think I should have to beg my own church to bring it to me when I am unable to get up the steps. There is an entire community of people from our church who can't get in it any more...and the church knows who we are. It isn't a mystery. Anyway, it is moving along. I am pleased that the current pastors listened to my whooping and hollering. As Rebecca was leaving after having brought communion, she looked at me and yelled, "We heard you!" :)

Chris, senior pastor, is the most enthusiastic, but he does not have much time to work with the website. He came in when there was a micro-schism (?) in the church (June 2004), and a remodeling project which was in a state of limbo. When I have a definite question to ask about whether some should or should not be on the website, I ask him. Otherwise, I am on my own.

In other words, in some respects I am teaching our congregation what a church website is about as I am building one. One of the curious things I have run into is seeing a person in the grocery story, for example, and having him/her thank me for building the website. Then I ask if he/she has seen it, and the answer 90% of the time is "no." Then I tell him/her what to expect to find, etc.

Thank you for your kind remarks. And I am sure I would enjoy being on your team. However, I have done things so long on my own, I don't know how good a team member I would make. :)

Carol

[mrbelfry]

Hi Carol - I just want to echo Phillip's words - you are great. It has taken me other 4 years to get my site in the state it is now and that is with an education in computers! What you have done in such a short space of time is amazing and you should be encouraged!

Getting info from ground floor church onto the website is a huge challenge as is getting our churches aware that we even have websites.

in some respects I am teaching our congregation what a church website is about as I am building one
This is so true I would guess for most of us - for me our past websites have not had a huge amount to offer - now I think they offer more but trying to get the church to see how the website could be used or to contribute is a challenge.

Back on topic - 3 things that I want for my site that I am working on are:
1) Email newsletters
2) Text message event reminders and news
3) online shop selling sermons and videos etc

[flutem3]

Thank you, Mr. Belfry. Your comments are an encouragement. I forget from time to time what a beginner I still am. But you know, I have no doubt that my own faith has deepened considerably while working on the website.

What kind of news do you want to have on your website? Is the reason you want it there to try to get people there? I put the Bible Challenge on for that very reason...besides it is great fun to learn each week what it is that I don't know that I thought I knew. :) It is a good challenge...and no ads. I looked all over to find that.

Curtis, I am still thinking about your question as it is such a good one. I think I am having trouble answering it because I don't know the answer which is what you want to teach me.

Sorry, Mr. Belfry. I just wanted to pop that in there. I do think it is a hard question. The reason it is hard is because most of the ideas I come up with don't really do anything to enhance the site.

Carol

[cwgraves]

we finally have the website address in the newspaper church list, on stationery, and on other material which goes out. That much is accomplished.Carol,

That's great! It usually takes at least a month or two for things to start happening after doing this type of marketing. You have to add some value to the website. Give them something they don't get in the weekly bulletin or newsletter.

What I do is recruit at least 1 or 2 teenagers and a few adults to write content for me. I try to get a teenager to do music reviews. I try to get the church librarian, or someone interested in books to do book reviews. I get articles from Focus On the Family (family.org). They have a section for movie reviews.

I have even been known to place stock quotes, news articles, etc... on certain pages on some of the sites.

I write articles (mini sermons), bible studies, devotions, etc... and place them on an articles page.

Give them more than just a list of upcoming events. Give them a reason to come and return! This stuff works!

When we launch the site, it is VERY IMPORTANT to get the senior pastor to announce it FROM THE PULPIT. He/she needs to remind the people every week. When we give our weekly announcements, we only take time to tell people about a few events. We always follow up with, "Make sure to check our website at www.churchname.org for more announcements."

We also write a personal letter to each person (member, non-member, guest, etc...) and invite them to come to the site to "help us out." In the letters, we offer to provide a BRANDED email address (curtis@mychurch.org) to anyone who doesn't already have email, or to those who have hotmail.com or yahoo.com or some other generic email account.

There are MANY other things we do and continue to do, but these will get you started.

[flutem3]

REFUSING TO QUIT

Sometimes faith is walking in darkness and simply refusing to
quit. Sometimes faith is just hanging on. The character of the
faith that allows us to be transformed by suffering and
darkness is not doubt-free certainty; rather, it is tenacious
obedience.

-- John Ortberg in "The Life You've Always Wanted

I like this so I thought I would share it with everyone. It came from
SOUND BITES, "Something good for the soul to chew on" which is done by Rev. Wilkinson of FUMC in Green Bay, WI in honor of a son who died. They come out daily.

Carol

[Craig]

Audio Bible Gateway
Discipleship Programs
Real Time Streaming Media
Bible Study Classes on demand
Twenty-four hour prayer line
Addiction Recovery Classes Online

[flutem3]

Audio Bible Gateway
Discipleship Programs
Real Time Streaming Media
Bible Study Classes on demand
Twenty-four hour prayer line
Addiction Recovery Classes Online

What are these? I know they are websites, but I don't understand why you posted them. Maybe I have become dense in the head.

Carol

[cwgraves]

Audio Bible Gateway
Discipleship Programs
Real Time Streaming Media
Bible Study Classes on demand
Twenty-four hour prayer line
Addiction Recovery Classes OnlineCan you describe these in more details? The streaming media and classes online are no brainers. What about the rest? Can you explain a workflow for each? In other words, describe what the user would see and what the system would do.

For Discipleship programs, we could go in many different directions. What are you thinking?

For 24-hour prayer line - is this just a forum like we are using, or live chat?

For these features, have you seen examples of some of them on current websites? If so, which ones?

[flutem3]

Curtis wrote:

"Can you explain a workflow for each?"


Hi, Curtis,

What do you mean by a "workflow?" Is it like a flow chart or an outline?

Carol

[cwgraves]

What do you mean by a "workflow?" Is it like a flow chart or an outline?A workflow is the step by step instructions a user would go through to do something.

For example, for the Bible Study classes "on demand", that could mean the following:
1. The user clicks on the link of the class he/she is attending.
2. The system displays a login box.
3. The user logs into the site.
4. The system uses the user information and figures out if they are a registered user and displays a welcome message if they are registered. If they are not registered, it displays a message asking them to register.
5. The system looks up which lesson in the class the user is currently working on.
6. The system displays the current lesson for the user to work on.
7. When the user is finished working for the day, they click the "log out" button.
8. The system records the progress the student made in the current lesson.

That sounds complicated, but it is forcing you (or whoever is asking for the feature) to figure out the design of the process.

There are many different ways to do an "on demand" class. The phrase "on demand" conjurs up different thoughts for different people. As webmasters, we need to help the users (even if WE are the users) figure out exactly what they are asking for. If they ask for a guest book, what exactly do you mean by a "guest book?"

Again, I'm trying to help us work on design skills by thinking about the start to finish steps involved in adding a feature to a website. Also, it helps me put together a list of desired features so I can work on things for people to use.

Did this help or is it still as clear as mud? Let me know and I'll try to explain better.

[flutem3]

Curtis wrote:

"Did this help or is it still as clear as mud? Let me know and I'll try to explain better."

Believe it or not, Curtis, I do understand that. The reason I think I do is because I am a navigation NUT. When I began going to web sites not so long ago, I had a terrible time with work flow. And on some web sites, I still do. In fact, I still have trouble with www.umc.org. I can go around and around on that site and still not find what I am looking for. Part of the problem, of course, is not asking for information properly. But I am much better than I used to be, thank goodness.

You may use work flow and navigation in the same breath, but I do. Because navigation to me also includes log in, etc.

Thanks.

Carol

[dangibbins]

Does a church need to have a website? Absolutely yes! However, I am often left agog at the number of times I am told by church webmasters that all they need is a list lf contacts and service times. The internet has expanded far more than the early 1990s style websites that were nothing more than basic brochures.

I work closely with a number of clergy and pinoeering church groups, just a short time agao we went through a wish list of what a website could fulfil, if money were no object. I've included part of that list here:

Service Times
History of the Church
Who's Who
Statement of Faith
Sermons
Directions / Contacts
Links
News / Groups & Associations / Meetings
Welcome page
Christianity / Mission Statement / Church Life
Worship
Baptisms
Funerals
Weddings
History of the Church / Bells / Tower / Genealogical Interests
Music & Choir
Church Tour / Virtual Tour
Activities within the Church
Parish News and Events
Sermons
Photo Gallery
Community Links / Advertising
School links / visits
Children’s Groups
Visiting the Church
Diary of Events
Pew Leaflets
Fairtrade
Chat Room / Discussion Boards
Guestbook
Church Groups: Alpha / Choir / Parent & Toddler / Pastoral / Bible Study / Sunday School / Mothers' Union etc
Church Rooms for Hire
Online Newsletters / Magazines / Articles / Parish Magazine
Volunteers
Appeals / Donations
Gift Shop Online
Youth Pages – created and developed by the youth groups
Online Prayer Request
Clubs
History of Notable Locals / World War Graves
Friends Associations
Leadership / Officers
Organisations Supported
Parishes / Churches Online
World Mission
Ecumenical Links
Life-long Learning
Young People
Information and Resources
Prayer
Healing
Bible Study / Weekly Reading
Liturgy
Church Projects
Schools and Colleges
Chaplaincy
Heritage
Vocations
Family & Marriage
Ecumenism
Other Faiths
Pastoral
Who is Jesus?

I've refrained from adding any more of the list for fear of taking over too much of this forum's bandwidth! I spend most of my day designing websites and communication services for churches and each day I come across church websites that are poorly designed with very little content. I did a round of research a few months back as part of a seminar I was running for a synod meeting, you may find it of interest. Some of the content can be found on the following page: http://www.churchwebsitedesign.org.uk/internetstats.html

[flutem3]

Hi, Dan or Daniel (Which to do prefer to be called?),

Welcome to the forum!! :D

I have a question for you. In the email I received of this post, the fonts etc. were stipulated.

There is something I do not understand at all. People frequently use Times New Roman on their websites. I think this is the most difficult of the common fonts to read. I was told that Times New Roman is used for newspapers, books, and magazines. It is easy to read there.

I have also been told that fonts with serifs are difficult to read on monitors which I, personally, find to be true.

Why is Times New Roman used so frequently? I don't like it a bit on a monitor...except in a title where it will be larger. I was checking out a site today, and the entire thing was in Times New Roman. I gave up on it after the index page. The font was about this size.

Have I been misinformed?

Carol

[dangibbins]

Hello, Carol.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I was Christened Daniel, but that hasn't stopped friends and family shortening it to Dan over the years. I prefer Daniel, if I'm being honest, but Dan works when trying to be quick on the keyboard (such as when typing usernames - dangibbins types quicker than danielgibbins - I know, only a matter of seconds, but it all adds up at the end of the day).

As for for Times New Roman, you're not alone in the 'I have Times New Roman' club, you can add my name to it! Times New Roman was designed for use on print media, but why it's ALWAYS the bog standard default when it's not really all that good for on screen content, I'll never know.

There are a number of fonts that have been specifically designed for high reslution minitors. For example, I'm a big fan of Tahoma, it's an excellent on-screen font and is very easy to read in smaller sizes. I tend to use this as my standard font for online work.

Back in the day when I was an English teacher, I used to use Comic Sans for a lot of presentations and on-screen text that was going to be displayed on an electronic whiteboard. It's a particularly good font to use for people with reading difficulties, especially in the larger sizes, but not so good in a block of text.

I also like using Verdana for online work, it's crisp, clear and well defined. What I particularly like about this forum is that the posts are all showered in a nice pale blue background, perfect for dyslexics. You may have noticed that I've changed font three times since starting this reply.

Lucida Sans, as you'll notice, is also quite a nice font - again, another font that has been used primarily for on-screen print media.

Trebuchet is another firm favourite, although I tend to use this for text that is usually limited to columns and captions as it stands out nicely.

But for now, I'll keep using my Tahoma font :-)

[flutem3]

Hi, Daniel,

I am glad to hear you say that. I like Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica which I can read easily. I figure if I can read them easily, so can others.

I love to use Comic Sans as a font to point something out specifically, and I like it for a Youth Page. It just has a "young look" to me. One of my favorites which isn't on lots of stuff is Lucida Calligraphy. I think that looks great for certain types of things. However, I don't use it often because lots of monitor/computers don't have it listed anyway.

I guess basically fonts sans serifs are just much easier to read on a monitor.

For those of you "out there, somewhere" September is Open House for the United Methodist Church. Our church has all kinds of activities planned. However, it amuses (?/irritates) me when we say, "Invite people to church." People are usually not going to come when invited. Most people do not like to go into a strange church around people they don't know. What we need to be doing, it seems to me, is inviting the person, offering to pick them up in our cars, introducing them to others, and sitting with them during church.

I have worked for four years to get a fellow to go to church. He is a believer...he was uncomfortable at churches. He is finally going to church but not to the church I go to which is fine. But the reason he gave is not. He said that we are too "high class" for him. Now, that is worth giving consideration by lots of people in the church. I wonder how many other people feel the same way?

Carol